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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:39 PM   #41
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Says the Cute Fuzzy Bunny...

Hey, my sister's name is Earlene...

What she meant was Rothschild and Eleanor... :P

I grew up in a town with a large population of folks on AFDC, food stamps, SSI, etc., and many were scamming the system...
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:45 PM   #42
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Is it for the same reason that every guy they ever arrest on "Cops" isnt wearing a shirt?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:49 PM   #43
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Yeah, I was using gross generalizations to depict blue collar Americans. It's offensive. By the way, if I told you my real name, you'd snort beer out your nose. Let's just say it's close to "Earlene"
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:55 PM   #44
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by !
Bet she was "living large" on that 20K with a family of 6.....
You are right of course. But don't forget, many people, including a large slug of those who frequent this board, really hate to work. Avoiding work is such a reinforcer for this sort of person, that he/he will meaningfully restrict his life as long as he doesn’t have to show up at work.

So I wouldn't rule out the possibility that $20,000 cash plus state supplied health benefits plus various other non- cash benefits this woman received might have been a pretty good motivator to stay on.

And, who can prove that some of those Daddies didn't come up with a bit of cash from time to time?

Early in our marriage my wife was a LA County social worker. Quite a few of her "clients" were turning tricks. And at least back then, the welfare bureaucracy had no interest in trimming their rolls- in fact they wanted more clients, not fewer, just like any other business.

Ha
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 09:57 PM   #45
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
People with funny names.
Oh, OK. *For a minute there I thought maybe it was a racist, cultural or geographical slam made by a bigot. *Don't need any of that going on. *Glad to hear that's it's not.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 10:06 PM   #46
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Re: Welfare cheaters

There already is a guest worker program.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...st-cover_x.htm. In the portion of the program that covers agricultural workers (approx 200,000 folks last year) the individuals get paid somewhat less than minimum wage. They also are housed and fed acceptably, and can earn much, much more than they do at home. They get sent home every 9 months, I don't know how long they have to stay there.

About the "Bubbas and Earlines": Folks without high-level skills are in trouble, and things are going to get worse. I don't think it is the fault of any mega-corp kabal or the "conservatives." In the decades after WWII, our nation went through a period of unparalleled economic prosperity (something to do with being the only major big functiong economy left, and lots of folks who needed to buy things all over the world). During that one historical blink of an eye, 3-4 decades long, a large number of low-skilled workers who had the good fortune to live in America could get a very well paying job on an assembly line or elsewhere--and lift themselves and their families out of poverty. That time is now over. Our industries and our workers now compete against companies and workers worldwide, and the low-skilled jobs are not here for Bubba and Earline--they'll need to move to another country if they want to assemble toasters and get paid $4 (or gobs of Baht) per day.

If people want to be economicaly successful here, they need to learn a skill that is in demand. Otherwise, they will be poor (which, after all, has been the normal state of man throughout history).

I guess none of this has anything to do with welfare cheaters.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 10:21 PM   #47
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawny Dangle
Yeah, I was using gross generalizations to depict blue collar Americans. It's offensive.
Yep, sure is.*
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-10-2006, 10:22 PM   #48
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I'm offended by your offense.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 07:31 AM   #49
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Texas Proud, I've also known women who have had each child by a different man, but this particular one had FOUR by the same guy! In her defense though, she and her boyfriend did finally straighten themselves out, and they're both working now.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 09:39 AM   #50
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Youbet: I appologize. It was bigoted and offensive to characterize low-income workers as Bubbas and Earlenes. It perpetuates a stereotype that I dislike, actually.

Samclem, in our new world, why is it a good thing to build a huge underclass of people who can't make a living wage? I realize you are not necessessarily advocating this, and I agree it appears to be exactly what is happening. So our country is turning into Mexico now? Where will our undereducated unskilled poor migrate?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 10:13 AM   #51
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Yep, you cant live on $8 an hour. But two people making $8-10 each can get by. I'd think it'd beat sitting home in a lawn chair drinking bud at 10 in the morning. But I guess its easier to try and "work" the system or look for an "angle". *shrug*
This from an ER? Say it ain't so. I'd rather be sitting at home in my lawn chair drinking bud right now than sitting in my office. It is 11 in the morning here though.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 10:37 AM   #52
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Re: Welfare cheaters

I'll second that. Wish I was home right now, cracking open a Yuengling or something. Plus, I hear it's really nice outside. Not that I know that...we have no windows in our cube farm.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 10:39 AM   #53
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by !
Bet she was "living large" on that 20K with a family of 6.....
Not my point... and that was OVER $20 and that was 20 years ago....

The point is that WE were paying for HER having all these kids... WHY?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 10:51 AM   #54
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre1969
Texas Proud, I've also known women who have had each child by a different man, but this particular one had FOUR by the same guy!* In her defense though, she and her boyfriend did finally straighten themselves out, and they're both working now.
I am glad to hear they did get straight, but the 'system' encourages that you do not have a real family... If there is a man in the house, you can be cut off the dole...

Again, from a long time ago... my sister used to go audit some of the people on welfare in California... she would tell me about how children would be shipped from house to house to keep the kid count up... how she would see 3 or more oil slicks on the drive, showing they had more than the one allowed.. of course, they were moved prior to her coming... and like someone else said, they KNOW how to game the system.. to get maximum benefits.

One last rant... I was in NY for a couple of years... there was one time when the welfare people were standing in line to get something (I can not remember what)... but the new reporter was going down the line asking them about what they had... almost all of them had a cell phone and cable TV... which WE paid for... I do not have cable TV, so why should someone on welfare be able to get it?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 10:52 AM   #55
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Tawney,
-Right, I'm not advocating creation of a huge group of poor people in the US. But I'm just noting that there are worldwide market forces at work that cannot be changed by legislation here. Uneducated/unskilled people in the US will not be able to live as wel as the last generation of uneducated/unskilled workers did. The last generation was an anomaly. Look back at the life of a worker (income, even working conditions) of a US factory worker in 1920--I think that is where we are headed for low-skill jobs. And, there's really no alternative, since workers elsewhere can do the unskilled work at much cheaper rates and no US manufacturer can compete unless relative US wages go down. And, before we start encourageing tarrifs and economic disengagement, it would be good to look at the success of that course of action in the past--it is not pretty.

There are three bright spots:
-- On a very long-term level, foreign wages will go up, which will help support higher wages in the US.
-- As foreign workers gradually get more disposable income due to their higher wages, they'l be buying more things from the US This will help US workers.
-- Despite claims to the contrary, low-wage earners in the US are doing better than they have in the past. The median income in the US from 2001 to 2004 (most current year availabe) increased by
1.6 percent after inflation. The mean income decreased 2.3 percent over the same period. That can only happen if low-income folks are earning more, and higher income folks are earning less.

There is nothing wrong with unskilled labor--the guy who pushes a broom or cleans fish in a factory is contributing far more to society than many folks who earn more money. But, the days of working in a US factory and beng able to buy a new car every three years, live in a nice house, and pay for a college education for your kids is probably going or gone already.

As a note--wages for many unskiled jobs in the US would increase if we stemmed the flow of illegal aliens ("undocumented workers"--"hey, I think I misplaced my passport and visa during that hike across the desert!"). In those cases where an industry really can't compete in the worldwide marketplace if they pay higher wages, I think it would be better to allow a controlled guest worker program with tight restrictions than it would be to have the whole factory move to another country. At least we'd still benefit from the ancillary jobs from having the work done here. It would be better than the present situation.


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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 11:01 AM   #56
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
This from an ER? Say it ain't so. I'd rather be sitting at home in my lawn chair drinking bud right now than sitting in my office. It is 11 in the morning here though.
Not me. I'd be sitting there thinking "budweiser and a crappy lawn chair? not this guy. I'm gonna go work for eight bucks an hour to afford to buy sam adams and a nice chair to sit in."

Last thing in the world I'd be doing is getting strap marks on my ass and drinking rat urine.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 11:02 AM   #57
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Tawny--My experience with the welfare recipients seems to be much different than yours. *I am in a position to be able to discover slightly more private information about the people I deal with on a daily basis. *AS I said in another post if I find someone who is cheating the system and can prove it to the standard required they are turned in and lose their benefits. *In the Sec 8 housing area of my town there are generally two types of occupants. *Long term occupants fall into two categories, welfare recipients who follow the system and just the poor. *Short term recipients also fall into two categories, welfare recipients who are cheating the system and the slightly better off poor who didn't know about the area before moving in. *In my experience the long term occupants typically are doing the best they can with what they have and don't cause any problems. *There are few long term residents. The short term better off poor occupants discover what the area is like and get out as soon as possible. *The leases are six months so that's how long they stay. *

The welfare cheaters discover they cannot abide by the policies of the landowner and are told their lease will not be renewed and if they violate the policy again they are evicted and lose their benefits. *Seldom do they violate policy again. *The others are arrested, turned into the appropriate agency for action, or otherwise handled and leave. *This is the predominate category of people in the Sec 8 areas I deal with.

The original post: *My sister-in-law had her five children taken from her for extreme neglect. *I adopted one of her kids. *When they were taken from her she was given a choice hysterectomy or be charged with child neglect. *She had already gone through all of the counseling the state could provide and did not change her ways. *The state did everything they could to help her with no improvement. *Her words, "I have five kids I don't need anymore." *She chose the operation, with the advice of a lawyer. *She still receives state support, because she is mentally retarded. Her children are doing very well and have more opportunities now than they ever would have had the stayed with her. *My adopted son was three before he could speak at a 18 month old level. *It took him until 5 years old before he stopped having nightmares and the typical problems associated with alcoholism.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 11:09 AM   #58
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Yup, people that spend their time worrying about a few welfare cheats, do not understand basic math.* The Savings and Loan scandal in the early 90's went right over their heads and cost $500 Billion. The Iraq war today is another $300 Billion.

Don't look now, but the tab on the war is still running, plus it is starting to look like we may be getting into another little conflagration in Iran.

And if the RE market backs up, there will be enough banks and S&Ls in trouble that we may be shelling out a few buck$.

Welfare cheats? Don't bother me with that small change nonsense.
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 11:14 AM   #59
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Re: Welfare cheaters

By those metrics, we should stop talking about everything else until we wrap our heads around the S&L scandal and the iraqi war ends?
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Re: Welfare cheaters
Old 04-11-2006, 11:18 AM   #60
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Re: Welfare cheaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Last thing in the world I'd be doing is getting strap marks on my ass and drinking rat urine.
Now that sentence leaves an indelible image!

Who claims poetry is dead?
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