Well Geeze wiz the shooter was a psycho and was in a mental institution!

[dumpster56]

Well look at this my friends...
Gunman's friendly exterior masked past - Yahoo! News

The guy was a nut job that should have been in the mental hospital but alas he was able to get a GUN and AMMO!

Again the system has failed the american people and yes even us retired people! It is an off topic issue that should be discussed.

But as I said in an earlier thread the guy was off meds there is now a stay at a mental hospital and he was STILL ABLE TO BUY A GUN. Why?

From the article...
Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press. His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said.
Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent.
"He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."






Now tell me why he was able to buy a gun legally? Sorry you spend time in mental treatment you don't need to be able to buy a glock handgun or any ammo.

[Marquette]

Not to detract from the discussion, but you did inspire me to hit Network Solutions. OneManMarchOnWashington.com is available.

Ok, as an aside from that... given our current system, how would a comprehensive background check work and what would the system and controls look like? Would it have been possible for the seller of the gun to catch the mental institution hospitalization or did it only come to light because of the media frenzy?

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 The guy was a nut job that should have been in the mental hospital but alas he was able to get a GUN and AMMO post on an Internet forum!

God Bless the pygmies in New Guinea

Handguns are made for killin';
they ain't no good for nothin' else.
And if you like to drink your whiskey,
you might even shoot yourself.

So why don't we dump 'em, people,
to the bottom of the sea?
Before some ol' fool come around here
and want to shoot either you or me...

Skynyrd!!

[calmloki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newguy888 Well look at this my friends... Gunman's friendly exterior masked past - Yahoo! News The guy was a nut job that should have been in the mental hospital but alas he was able to get a GUN and AMMO! Again the system has failed the american people and yes even us retired people! It is an off topic issue that should be discussed. But as I said in an earlier thread the guy was off meds there is now a stay at a mental hospital and he was STILL ABLE TO BUY A GUN. Why? From the article... Kazmierczak spent more than a year at the Thresholds-Mary Hill House in the late 1990s, former house manager Louise Gbadamashi told The Associated Press. His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said. Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent. "He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem." Now tell me why he was able to buy a gun legally? Sorry you spend time in mental treatment you don't need to be able to buy a glock handgun or any ammo.

Makes sense to me. If a kid's parents warehouse the kid because he's "unruly" then he should carry the mental house stigmata through the rest of his life.
""His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said.
Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent.
"He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem.""
I love the last line. If i was on the edge of being an adult and my parents stuck me in a nuthouse because i was unruly - especially if i didn't consider myself mentally ill - it might make me a little crazy too. Let's ban mental institutions - no, that's silly. Let's ban parents!

[dumpster56]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki Makes sense to me. If a kid's parents warehouse the kid because he's "unruly" then he should carry the mental house stigmata through the rest of his life. ""His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said. Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent. "He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."" I love the last line. If i was on the edge of being an adult and my parents stuck me in a nuthouse because i was unruly - especially if i didn't consider myself mentally ill - it might make me a little crazy too. Let's ban mental institutions - no, that's silly. Let's ban parents!

I bet there is even more mental issues here that we will never see.

Bottom line you get sent to any mental institution you should be on a do not buy a gun list someplace.

Hummm.... Police state?? But then again there are sooo many americans that agree with that patriot act so why not a list of crazies that any gun dealer can access and not sell to the person.

Hey I am just brainstorming here. But are you guys tired of the candle light vigils that we see everytime this sickness shows up??

Instead of walking around with candles how about getting mad and doing something.

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki Makes sense to me. If a kid's parents warehouse the kid because he's "unruly" then he should carry the mental house stigmata through the rest of his life. ""His parents placed him there after high school because he had become "unruly" at home, she said. Gbadamashi said she couldn't remember any instances of him being violent. "He never wanted to identify with being mentally ill," she said. "That was part of the problem."" I love the last line. If i was on the edge of being an adult and my parents stuck me in a nuthouse because i was unruly - especially if i didn't consider myself mentally ill - it might make me a little crazy too. Let's ban mental institutions - no, that's silly. Let's ban parents!

In retrospect, I'd say he was a bit unruly...

But therein lies the slippery slope. Who decides if you are mentally ill, and to what degree?

[calmloki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFWR In retrospect, I'd say he was a bit unruly...

true... but, and this is heretical, a few shootings that kill off 5 or 50 people is nothing in a country of 300 million. I would even suggest that the destruction of the world trade center and 3000 people was little more than a gnat bite. It is the response to the stimulus that is and has been expensive.

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki true... but, and this is heretical, a few shootings that kill off 5 or 50 people is nothing in a country of 300 million. I would even suggest that the destruction of the world trade center and 3000 people was little more than a gnat bite. It is the response to the stimulus that is and has been expensive.

Automobile deaths are huge in the USA but it doesn't get any attention - half caused by alcohol - Bring back prohibition!




Crash and Casualty Statistics for the USA


2001
2002
2003
2004
Total Road Deaths in the USA
42,196
43,005
42,884
42,636
Fatalities per 100 Million Vehicle Miles Traveled (the 'VMT rate')
1.51
1.51
1.48
1.46
Fatalities per 100,000 Population (the 'per capita' rate)
14.80
14.94
14.75
14.52
Fatalities per 10,000 Registered Vehicles
19.07
19.06
18.58
18.00

[Notmuchlonger]

Get rid of cars we must protect ourselves from the crazies!

[ronin]

We just had the funeral for LAPD SWAT Officer Randal Simmons. Thousands turned out to honor him. He was felled in a shoot out with a mentally ill Salvadoran immigrant who had killed several of his own family members. Officer Simmons thought some of them might still be alive when he burst into the residence.

Mentally deranged shooters capture the news spotlight but are a relatively small portion of mass murders like these. Cold comfort. I have no solutions right now, only sadness for the losses.

[CybrMike]

I have a solution. Only one that makes any sense to me.

How about we allow law abiding gun owners (most states require permit to carry concealed) to carry their guns on college campuses. That way the next time some nutjob decides to go killing spree on us he'll get two in the chest before he takes anybody out.

- LifeTime NRA member

[cantlogin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrMike I have a solution. Only one that makes any sense to me. How about we allow law abiding gun owners (most states require permit to carry concealed) to carry their guns on college campuses. That way the next time some nutjob decides to go killing spree on us he'll get two in the chest before he takes anybody out. - LifeTime NRA member

That idea sucks. Students are required to bring computers to school. The same requirement should apply to hand guns. I think everyone's manners would improve immeasurably.

That was Archie Bunker's solution to airplane hijacking. GIVE every passenger a gun before boarding.

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantlogin That was Archie Bunker's solution to airplane hijacking. GIVE every passenger a gun before boarding.

That would have worked in the 70's but not now. If you put your seat back in today's planes it might cause the gun in the person's lap behind you to go off.

[gandalf42]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex That would have worked in the 70's but not now. If you put your seat back in today's planes it might cause the gun in the person's lap behind you to go off.

Intentionally or unintentionally?

(I've seen a lot of "unruly" people on airplanes!)

[KM]

I can only assume that some of you are kidding about everyone just carrying a handgun with them wherever they go…..

My daughter is a junior at VaTech. She was there last April 16th. It was a day neither of us will ever forget. Her comment to people suggesting all students carry guns was: “Yeah, if they let everyone carry guns to class, there would not have been an Asian left alive in Norris. Panic would have overtaken common sense and kids would have been shooting at anyone even remotely Asian-looking.”

I don’t know what the answer is, but I am pretty sure gun-toting student isn’t it. I do wish they would tighten laws on who can buy guns, waiting periods, backgrounds checks, etc. I am not sure I would want a “registered mental health patients” list for public consumption – but it would seem to me that if you could only buy a gun if you had a permit from the state police – and the state police had a nationwide list – we might move in the right direction. If you have spent any time in a mental health setting – should you really have a gun? I am sure that there are many cases where the answer to this is “why not?” – and in some special cases, it is valid. But at some point the rights of society should outweigh the rights of a few. College students have a right to go to class without looking over their shoulder constantly.

Unfortunately, I also believe that even if you take the guns away, anyone who wishes to do serious harm to others will find a way to do it. It can and will happen anywhere. It just would be nice if we could try and make it a little harder for them to do.

My thoughts and prayers to the students and families of NIU.

[CybrMike]

I'm the farthest thing from kidding. I carry a gun everywhere I go and I can assure you that if an Asian person tries to rob or harm me or my family, I'm not just going to start shooting any Asian person I see.

Same would be true in a school shooting incident.

The reality is that everyone is not going to carry a gun. Just won't happen. But it only takes one person who is carrying to stop a senseless crime like this.

It would obviously be great to have a better NICS database to stop people who have a history of mental illness from purchasing guns, but I'm afraid that won't even make a difference.

There was a case near my home where a mentally ill guy stole a gun from a relative and went to a nearby gas station and shot the first innocent person he found and then turned the gun on himself.

Like you said, if someone wants to go off the deep end, they are going to do it whether they can buy a gun legally or not. Heck, if they can't get a gun, they'll start suicide bombing or something. The only effective measure of stopping this is an armed populace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KM I can only assume that some of you are kidding about everyone just carrying a handgun with them wherever they go….. My daughter is a junior at VaTech. She was there last April 16th. It was a day neither of us will ever forget. Her comment to people suggesting all students carry guns was: “Yeah, if they let everyone carry guns to class, there would not have been an Asian left alive in Norris. Panic would have overtaken common sense and kids would have been shooting at anyone even remotely Asian-looking.” I don’t know what the answer is, but I am pretty sure gun-toting student isn’t it. I do wish they would tighten laws on who can buy guns, waiting periods, backgrounds checks, etc. I am not sure I would want a “registered mental health patients” list for public consumption – but it would seem to me that if you could only buy a gun if you had a permit from the state police – and the state police had a nationwide list – we might move in the right direction. If you have spent any time in a mental health setting – should you really have a gun? I am sure that there are many cases where the answer to this is “why not?” – and in some special cases, it is valid. But at some point the rights of society should outweigh the rights of a few. College students have a right to go to class without looking over their shoulder constantly. Unfortunately, I also believe that even if you take the guns away, anyone who wishes to do serious harm to others will find a way to do it. It can and will happen anywhere. It just would be nice if we could try and make it a little harder for them to do. My thoughts and prayers to the students and families of NIU.

[dex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KM My daughter is a junior at VaTech. She was there last April 16th. It was a day neither of us will ever forget. Her comment to people suggesting all students carry guns was: “Yeah, if they let everyone carry guns to class, there would not have been an Asian left alive in Norris. Panic would have overtaken common sense and kids would have been shooting at anyone even remotely Asian-looking.”

Putting aside current events this comment is very disturbing. It says that racially speaking we really haven't come very far if at all.

Prior to the 1960s (possibly the 1940s) race riots were whites attacking blacks and driving them out of their communities. All it would take was a black man being accused of interacting in a way that could be interperted as inapropriate for the times with a white woman. The word would spread and many white people would attack.

[KM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CybrMike I'm the farthest thing from kidding. I carry a gun everywhere I go and I can assure you that if an Asian person tries to rob or harm me or my family, I'm not just going to start shooting any Asian person I see. Same would be true in a school shooting incident.

Having never been in that situation, I am not sure you (or I) can say how we would react. If you have been in that situation, then you are one of very few.

You are in a place with 200 people. A person in a gray-hooded sweatshirt and jeans comes in and shoots a number of people. 195 survivors start yelling, pulling guns and running. One minute later you are looking at a guy in a gray-hooded sweatshirt and jeans, with a gun in his hand. Do you shoot and ask questions later? If you don't, how do you know he doesn't shoot you? Is he the original shooter? How do you know? What if the guy doesn't have the sweatshirt on? But he has a gun? How do you know it isn't the shooter who took his sweatshirt off? How do you know it is?

This wouldn't happen, because you would have shot him before he left? You and 195 other people? Then how many people will be hit by "friendly-fire"? None? I doubt it.

And, how could we expect the police to safely enter a situation of that nature - where everyone has a gun in their hand?

Most people will make the situation more dangerous with a gun. You may feel you wouldn't - and I can't comment on that. And although I respect your right to your opinion, if you truly believe that arming every person with a gun will make us all safer - then I hope your dreams never come true.

[KM]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dex Putting aside current events this comment is very disturbing. It says that racially speaking we really haven't come very far if at all. Prior to the 1960s (possibly the 1940s) race riots were whites attacking blacks and driving them out of their communities. All it would take was a black man being accused of interacting in a way that could be interperted as inapropriate for the times with a white woman. The word would spread and many white people would attack.

The comment was not racial. Please do not try to make it so. It was pointing out the fact that all people knew in the chaos was the shooter was XXXX. Fill in XXX with whatever you want. In this case, XXXX was that the shooter was Asian. If everyone had a gun, they would be shooting at people who looked like XXXXX.

XXXX could have been a white female in a pink mini-shirt with a knapsack. Then everyone with a gun would have shot at any white female in a pink mini-shirt with a knapsack.

[Brat]

The shooter also joined the military and was discharged as unsuitable. He had difficulty holding a job. I suspect hidden serious mental illness.