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Old 02-08-2008, 01:02 PM   #61
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WOW>>> I did not know you could backdate posts

But..... you are also like the financial advisor who recommends two stocks.. one wins, one tanks.. and you point to the winner... what happened to:

"For the D's: *Gore-Biden (I think that's all they have anyway)."

Neither one even got in the race....

PS... just having fun with ya.... good picking...
Just goes to show you how unpredictable the D's are.

Who could have ever guessed a woman and a black man would have made it this far in a presidential race? Discrimination must be over in America.
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:11 PM   #62
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Who could have ever guessed a woman and a black man would have made it this far in a presidential race? Discrimination must be over in America.
Discrimination will be over when no one bothers to comment on a candidate's race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc, etc, etc.

But I'd say we are making progress.

-ERD50
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:37 PM   #63
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because they can't stand a parade without getting out in front of it. Then when he loses, they will repudiate him as a lost cause. McCain is very conservative, but a classic Goldwater style conservative, not a radical Limbaugh style conservative.
Tell me how McCain is a conservative, when his views are NOTHING like mine on 99% of his platform, and I AM a conservative??

Joe Lieberman did it right, became an Independent when his views didn't fit with his party's beliefs. McCain should do the same........
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Old 02-08-2008, 01:38 PM   #64
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Discrimination will be over when no one bothers to comment on a candidate's race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc, etc, etc.

But I'd say we are making progress.

-ERD50
Once we have a woman or non-caucasian male in the White House, it won't be an issue any more. I find it interesting it hasn't happened yet.........
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Old 02-08-2008, 02:30 PM   #65
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Tell me how McCain is a conservative, when his views are NOTHING like mine on 99% of his platform, and I AM a conservative??

Joe Lieberman did it right, became an Independent when his views didn't fit with his party's beliefs. McCain should do the same........
FD I think you've been listening to too much talk radio.


McCain Hillary Obama you
Social Issues
Pro life Yes No No
Death Penalty Yes No ?
School Choice Yes No No
2nd Amendment Yes No No

Fiscal
Keep Bush tax cuts Yes No No
Free trade Yes Yes ?
Opposes earmarks Yes No ?
Medicare Prescription No Yes Yes?
Increase investor tax No Yes Yes

National Defense
Support Surge Yes No No
Wants timetable No Yes Yes
FISA reauthorization Yes No No
PATRIOT Bill Yes No? No
Meet Korea, Iran leaders No No Yes

Ratings
McCain Hillary Obama
American Conservative Union 82.3 9 8
NARAL (Abortion rights) 0 100 100
AFL-CIO 17
Americans for Democratic Action 15 95 95

Bill Bennett has a nice article illustrating the real truth about Senator McCain is a conservative with a handful of liberal positions primarily about the enviornment, campaign finance reform. There are other issues he has taken hit for but I don't think they make him a liberal. See next post.
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Old 02-08-2008, 02:39 PM   #66
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A nice summary of why I will hold my nose and vote for Clinton if Obama loses out.

I think that McCain will get conservative and religious nuyball support because they have no other option. But I imagine that turnout from those groups will be relatively low.
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Old 02-08-2008, 02:52 PM   #67
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Actually I don't listen to talk radio at all, I guess that makes me a "bad conservative"...........
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:26 PM   #68
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I look for the candidate who will be the best in regards to my finances. Im shallow that way
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:31 PM   #69
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Maybe I could live with McCain if he picks Romney as VP...........
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:35 PM   #70
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Im hoping he picks Lieberman
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3 bad raps from talk radio for McCain.
Old 02-08-2008, 03:37 PM   #71
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3 bad raps from talk radio for McCain.

Rush, Hannity, Mark Levin and the nut case Ann Coulter along with few other Talk Radio host have taken McCain to task for number of issues. IMO, in at least these three cases the criticism are unfair.

Immigration. One of the provisions of McCain bill called for illegal aliens to be granted a visa, after paying fines, and showing they were otherwise good law abiding folks. This provision generated a huge firestorm of protest on talk radio. The fact the McCain worked with Kennedy made the problem worse.
Why the criticism in unfair. First, McCain did NOT wake up one day and say hey lets reform immigration laws (although he has urged so for many years.) President Bush called on the congress to do so in solicited McCain's help. McCain's orignal proposal and the President's were virtually the same. McCain gets legitmate criticism for not following party leadership, in this case McCain was on the same side as the President and party leaders. It was talk radio and some conservatives in the party who were the mavericks not McCain.

Opposing the Bush tax cuts. As early retiring living off dividends and capital gains, I must say I love the Bush tax cuts especially since my Fed taxes are so low (zero). On the other hand as American and life time Republican, I am outraged and embarrassed that given the excellent economic prosperity we've enjoyed in the last 15 years, the only balanced budget we had was under a Democrat Bill Clinton. This despite Republican controled both the White House and Congress for several years.

From 1920s under Calvin Coolidge, all the way until the 2nd term of the Reagan. The true conservative position was that lower taxes were good but of far more importance was to reduce the debt. In particular the Federal government should run a surplus during good times, and deficit during bad economic times much like states do. Frankly, by opposing the tax cut John McCain was acting as true conservative, while the rest of the party was acting like free spending drunken sailors (Medicare prescription drugs, pork laden transportation bils, obscene farm bills, oh and very expensive albeit necessary war) Recent news that we will probably run a record defict this year, and may exceed 10 trillion in debt reinforces the wisdom of McCain opposition. Anybody who calls themself a conservative should give McCain a huge kiss for opposing all of this crap and maintain the traditional Republican role as deficit hawks.

The Gang of 14. McCain worked with other moderate senators to avoid the Senate repealing the almost 200 year tradition of the fillibuster. In the short term this probably would have allowed a couple more circuit judges, as it is was the Gang 14 did allow Justice Alitio confirmation to the SCOTUS. In the long term repealing the fillibsuter would likely have been horrible. It is very likely that Hillary-Obama will be President the Dems will control both houses of Congress. The only thing keeping the dems from appointing up to 4 justices will be the 40 odd Republican Senators.

As matter of principal repealing the Senate fillibuster, is antithesis of conservative values and core beliefs. The general concept behind being conservative is to continue upholding traditional customs especially with respect to the founding fathers unless there is clear evidence that they are outmoded or just wrong. In the Federalist papers, the purpose of the Senate was to be counter to the mass hysteria of popular opinion. That is why Senators have 6 year terms, and why the Senate has a tradition of the fillibuster and being far more respectfully of the rights of the minority.
By refusing to destroy this old tradition which has served this country well, for a short-term partisan gain, Senator McCain was acting as true conservative. In contrast the Right Wing radio hosts were showing their true colors as populist demogugues.
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Old 02-08-2008, 03:58 PM   #72
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A nice summary of why I will hold my nose and vote for Clinton if Obama loses out.

I think that McCain will get conservative and religious nuyball support because they have no other option. But I imagine that turnout from those groups will be relatively low.
Oh well I guess it is more important to hold the base.

I understand why people want to vote for Obama. If the choice was between Romney and Obama I'd have some serious soul searching.

I'm guess you are more aligned with Hillary on social issues, probably on the war. However, on fiscal issues I bet McCain is closer to what you want.

On the issue of personal character and integrity, McCain and Hillary couldn't be further apart. Hillary will do anything to get elected. McCain would rather lose the election than lose the war.

The bottom line for me, is when the choice comes down to doing what is best for themselfs vs doing the for the country. John McCain proved in a Hanoi POW camp which he will choose, Hillary and Bill made the opposite choice in MonicaGate.

I think that has to count for a lot.
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Old 02-08-2008, 04:12 PM   #73
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John McCain proved in a Hanoi POW camp which he will choose, Hillary and Bill made the opposite choice in MonicaGate.
What does Hanoi have to do with a BJ?
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As far as I can tell
Old 02-08-2008, 04:41 PM   #74
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As far as I can tell

the only reasons conservatives dislike McCain, other than his perceived snubbing them, is a) campaign finance (who else would give a damn, seriously, if they aren't smart enough to sidestep this as all other such legislation has been sidestepped, they can't be very intelligent, and this after their k-street fiascos), b) immigration (even though Reagan gave us amnesty and Bush has supported it as well), c) actual fiscal responsibility (as opposed to just talking about it as something only Democrats need), and perhaps d) not supporting unification of church and state.

He could use someone younger than Leiberman. If Romney hadn't caricatured himself so badly as someone who will say, if not do, anything to become president, he would likely have been the best choice.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:21 PM   #75
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What does Hanoi have to do with a BJ?
I really really don't want to open up the Monica mess again.

I just want to contrast the two candidate behaviors when faced with a choice betwen doing what is right for the country vs themselves.

I think we can all agree the best thing for the country would have been for Bill to fess up that yes he did have sex with that woman Monica Lewinsky. Hillary could have help the country by saying "Yes Bill has a real problem with keeping his martial vows, and I'd like to kill him, but it doesn't change his performance as President. Instead they chose to lie and caused this country great turmoil when they got caught lying.

The best thing personally for Senator McCain to have done was accept the offer for early release. He actually had the approval of a senior officer to do so on medical grounds. However, the morale of his fellow POW would been hurt by him taking advantage of his dad's high rank as get out of jail free card.

All President have to face the choices of doing what is best for them politically vs what is best for the country. I feel confident about how Senator McCain will choose.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:27 PM   #76
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I really really don't want to open up the Monica mess again.
Stop it ; you're killing me...
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:41 PM   #77
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But I still don't understand the need for a conservative (let alone strong conservative) VP choice. It's a certaintly that McCain will be the most conservative candidate in the ultimate election. Why any need for additional conservativism on the ticket? Wouldn't he be better off with a VP who can appeal to a different voting block? Unless something surprising happens, McCain will have the conservative position all to himself.
Neither do I understand why a super conservative running mate is needed. The religious right and super conservatives can flail in the wilderness for 8 years. I'd pick Colin Powell for running mate. He would appeal and draw from the Democratic vote and provide some measured reason to McCain's propensity to bounce off the walls.

The USA just can't afford another right wing Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeldt trio that has been responsible for about 40% depreciation in the USD in the last 7 years and made tons of new enemies worldwide.
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:05 PM   #78
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because they can't stand a parade without getting out in front of it. Then when he loses, they will repudiate him as a lost cause. McCain is very conservative, but a classic Goldwater style conservative, not a radical Limbaugh style conservative.
Not old enough to know about Goldwater... but I agree he is conservative... and not like Limbaugh...

But then again.. if Limbaugh or someone like him was up... I would have to vote for a dem for president for the first time in my life... heck, the guy is NUTS... and to me the people that follow him are dangerous...
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:13 PM   #79
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Neither do I understand why a super conservative running mate is needed. The religious right and super conservatives can flail in the wilderness for 8 years. I'd pick Colin Powell for running mate. He would appeal and draw from the Democratic vote and provide some measured reason to McCain's propensity to bounce off the walls.

The USA just can't afford another right wing Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeldt trio that has been responsible for about 40% depreciation in the USD in the last 7 years and made tons of new enemies worldwide.
Good choice... Colin... but would he want to do it
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:21 PM   #80
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OK..... I will do the 'test'...

McCain Hillary Obama you
Social Issues
Pro life Yes No No NO
Death Penalty Yes No ? YES (and was on a jury who gave one)
School Choice Yes No No YES, but only to low income people
2nd Amendment Yes No No YES, but do believe in some of the current laws

Fiscal
Keep Bush tax cuts Yes No No YES (only because if the recession possibility, otherwise no)
Free trade Yes Yes ? YES
Opposes earmarks Yes No ? YES
Medicare Prescription No Yes Yes? NO
Increase investor tax No Yes Yes NO

National Defense
Support Surge Yes No No NO
Wants timetable No Yes Yes NO, let's declare we won and get out
FISA reauthorization Yes No No YES, but with some restrictions.. I think Bush did things against the constitution... but hey, it is war...
PATRIOT Bill Yes No? No Again.. some changes, but yes
Meet Korea, Iran leaders No No Yes NO, let the underlings talk...
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