What a Moral Dilemma

[Texas Proud]

Is that possibly 3 too many?

You might want to look at the stats for various criminal convictions in Texas (it's the last place I'll be in when I have to dispatch DW).

Nope...

 

[donheff]

I came back to this goofy thread just to see ERD's gif mod. Excellent. Now we need a little tutorial showing where we find the settings. Are the primes important or just for sh**s and giggles?

 

[ERD50]

I came back to this goofy thread just to see ERD's gif mod. Excellent. Now we need a little tutorial showing where we find the settings. Are the primes important or just for sh**s and giggles?

Hah! It was just another one my curious little diversions - I like learning how all this stuff works.

I recall somewhere along the line I loaded an animated gif into an editing program, and saw that it came up with each 'frame' as a separate layer, so I used this opportunity to dig a bit deeper.

I didn't realize people would get such a kick out of this, but it was a bit of fun to put it together.

In this case, I right-clicked-saved the gif to my computer, loaded into an editing program (I use the open-source, cross-platform and free "Graphic Image Manipulation Program"). A dialog shows all eight layers, each with a 100 mS delay, and then they loop back. I just re-arranged them to start two layers later, changed the delay to 127 mS, then repeated with another two-frame offset and 149 mS delay.

I didn't see any way to randomize the time delays (there might be), so the thought of prime numbers came to me, as that would minimize any apparent cyclical repetition. But mostly to make it sound so much more sophisticated than any other numbers I might pick which probably would have worked just as well, or, as you put it, mainly just 'for sh**s and giggles'.

-ERD50

 

[donheff]

Aha. I did something like that in about 1995. I drew a little windsurfer and then rotated it to make it flip. Then I stretched out the background and layered the rotating images across so the windsurfer jumped. Used it on the windsurfing section of my home built web site. Now, if I can remember the right text to insert a gif, I can try to run it here: (nope, can't remember the brackets, if someone does let me know. That little guy sails across and makes a couple of jumps.)

 

[donheff]

Lets try this early web masterpiece:

 

[ERD50]

Lets try this early web masterpiece:

There you go - very nice!

I guess the trick is to post the image on the web so you can use the IMG tags to reference the url. I did mine as an image upload with the forum software, but those seem to only get tagged on at the end of a post.


-ERD50

 

[samclem]

I'm guessing the folks accessing this thread via their 75 baud dialup in Vanuatu are hating this. : )

 

[donheff]

There you go - very nice!

I guess the trick is to post the image on the web so you can use the IMG tags to reference the url. I did mine as an image upload with the forum software, but those seem to only get tagged on at the end of a post.


-ERD50

Yes, uploading it to photobucket is all it took. I took down my website about 5 years ago so I can't point there.

 

[NW-Bound]

I'm guessing the folks accessing this thread via their 75 baud dialup in Vanuatu are hating this. : )

So, do we post nice graphics, or do we avoid upsetting bandwidth-limited readers?

What a dilemma.

 

[kcowan]

We have a chain of corner stores called OXXO (think 7-11) and there are a couple of stores that are notorious at taking a 500 peso note and giving you change for 200. I still shop in those stores when I have a small bill.

Another restaurant had a scam going on where the waiter would serve a large group and collect the bill in cash. If there were 2x500 pesos bill they would replace them with 2x200 pesos notes and return saying I had not paid enough, and then bring over another person purporting to be the manager.

I quietly paid the bill and then contacted the owner who I knew personally. She put a watch on them and discovered the scam, repaid my money, and then let them go.

Mexico often have things like this going on because the staff are underpaid. It pays to be alert.

NOB I have never had a problem that I recall. I have had a problem with self-checkout but there was always a clerk managing 6 stations that would help. Mostly related to placing my cloth bag on the paid stand instead of taking plastic bags.

 

[Sunset]

Being honest can really surprise folks.

Last week I was at a garage sale, the fellow had a weed puller asking $5. I said "Would you take $4"?
He said "sure, he would take anything".
As I got out my $5 dollar bill, I said, "I should have offered you $3" (a Jedi trick).

He took my $5 and gave me back $2.
I told him "I don't want to cheat you, we agreed on $4 so I only need $1 back."
I gave him back the $2 and he gave me the $1.
As I walked away, I heard him explaining the event to his partner.

 

[kcowan]

He would have taken $2 happily. It reduced his weight in the trip to the dump. The market economy works different in garage sales. The early bird want to screw over the seller. The late arrivals want to reduce his load to the dump.

In 1997, I was getting rid of an Adam Computer system. I had not price on it. A collector showed up and asked what I wanted for it (this was 1997). I said it was an unusual item and that I wanted any buyer to offer what he thought was fair. He offered $100. I said that it was way below what I thought it might be worth, but if he wanted it at that price, so be it.

The fact was that I expected to take it to the dump.

 

[ivinsfan]

IMO, this statement here indicates to me that you do not know how business works, regardless of your statements to the contrary.

Competition is what drives a business to compete for customers. Living "in the sticks" (I'm not sure if that was your term or not, but not meant to be derogatory anyhow) has pros and cons, and one of the cons can be limited competition in some markets.

Maybe a business does good by their customers as a matter of pride, but you can't count on that. Competition will drive them out of business if they don't - they don't have a choice in the matter. Adapt or perish.

We have a LOT of competition in supermarkets in my area, from low end (Aldis) to the Whole Foods and their kind, and lots in between. We get fantastic service in all of them.

A while back at Trader Joes, DW was merely looking at the shelf for a product, and without even asking, a 'crew member' asked if she needed help finding something. It was not on the shelf, the guy went back to look for more, came back and said 'sorry' we are out'. No problem, we can get it next time, no rush.

Well, DW pays for the rest, is loading up the car, and this guy comes running out of the store, tracks her down, and says " Here, I did find them in the back in another spot - this is gratis".

Now, what were you saying about service levels are declining everywhere, as retailers try to find out how much crap their customers will put up with?


-ERD50

Just bumping this because Whole Foods has been dinged by the Consumer Affairs department of New York for mis-labeling and getting the weight wrong on 80 of 80 test items purchased in about 9 different stores in NYC.Apparently they have been chronic offenders since 2010.NYC is a big market with lots of competition. I still feel that even in a small market town, the standard should be correct pricing (and if a small market means higher prices, so be it) and well operating check-out equipment.....even the pro-business people shouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[ERD50]

Just bumping this because Whole Foods has been dinged by the Consumer Affairs department of New York for mis-labeling and getting the weight wrong on 80 of 80 test items purchased in about 9 different stores in NYC.Apparently they have been chronic offenders since 2010.NYC is a big market with lots of competition. I still feel that even in a small market town, the standard should be correct pricing (and if a small market means higher prices, so be it) and well operating check-out equipment.....even the pro-business people shouldn't have a problem with that.

Got a link - sometimes devils in the details? 'Wrong' by how much? Which way? Maybe it averaged out - maybe not?

Yes, we should expect fair weights, measures, and pricing from every business. My point was more about the service level, and w/o competition, that gets dicey.

But now I'm curious, and I'll start weighing some packages that I bring home. I've got a decent digital kitchen scale, and I'll do a rough verification with some known weights.

-ERD50

 

[ivinsfan]

Got a link - sometimes devils in the details? 'Wrong' by how much? Which way? Maybe it averaged out - maybe not?

Yes, we should expect fair weights, measures, and pricing from every business. My point was more about the service level, and w/o competition, that gets dicey.

But now I'm curious, and I'll start weighing some packages that I bring home. I've got a decent digital kitchen scale, and I'll do a rough verification with some known weights.

-ERD50

Actually the story didn't say how the weights came out.... under or over..which is why I didn't do a link. However the 80 for 80 wrong was pretty amazing, you'd think that a few would be right out of that number. It just said some fines were levied. I thought it was interesting because Whole Foods seems to have a pretty good reputation. I'd be interested in how your experiment turns out...even if it averages out, some consumers will get the "less" packages. I never think twice when I buy premeasured portions at the store.

 

[ERD50]

Actually the story didn't say how the weights came out.... under or over..which is why I didn't do a link. However the 80 for 80 wrong was pretty amazing, you'd think that a few would be right out of that number. It just said some fines were levied. I thought it was interesting because Whole Foods seems to have a pretty good reputation. I'd be interested in how your experiment turns out...even if it averages out, some consumers will get the "less" packages. I never think twice when I buy premeasured portions at the store.

So many stories are just trying to grab clicks. Maybe it was 0.00001 ounces out of a 16 ounce package? That would be 'wrong' by some standards. My background is in measurements, so loose language doesn't cut it with me.

-ERD50

 

[Bestwifeever]

Here is the story that other sources picked up on: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-foods-faces-city-probe-overcharges-article-1.2268695 yes, eight WF stores caught with 80 misweighed, unspecified number over- and under- weight, unspecified number prepackaged and wrongly weighed by the vendor.

I am in the two wrongs don't make a right in terms of walking out on purpose with something not paid for, ever, but get that others feel justified in it after reading stories.

 

[Texas Proud]

Here is the story that other sources picked up on: EXCLUSIVE: Whole Foods faces NYC probe for overcharges - NY Daily News yes, eight WF stores caught with 80 misweighed, unspecified number over- and under- weight, unspecified number prepackaged and wrongly weighed by the vendor.

I am in the two wrongs don't make a right in terms of walking out on purpose with something not paid for, ever, but get that others feel justified in it after reading stories.

I read a couple of articles on this... it looks like one of the problems is prepared food... they gave an example of a sandwich listed at 3 oz.... but all weight more than that... on their chicken sandwich they said listed at 7 oz, but weight was between 6 and 9 something oz...


To me, when you are buying something that is prepared in a store it is very hard for them to be accurate on weight.... when I buy something like this I look at them and try an buy the largest one I see... OR the best looking one if I am not concerned with weight....

 

[ivinsfan]

I read a couple of articles on this... it looks like one of the problems is prepared food... they gave an example of a sandwich listed at 3 oz.... but all weight more than that... on their chicken sandwich they said listed at 7 oz, but weight was between 6 and 9 something oz...


To me, when you are buying something that is prepared in a store it is very hard for them to be accurate on weight.... when I buy something like this I look at them and try an buy the largest one I see... OR the best looking one if I am not concerned with weight....

This is so true and yet the regulators will slap them with a fine and publicize the problem, costing us and the store more money.If the item is over weight what's the point in punishing the store? It makes the customer uneasy.

I certainly agree today's business climate isn't fun or easy for the retail chain or the customers....but I believe honesty is the best policy on both sides of the transaction.

 

[ERD50]

Descriptions like this make me lose any credibility in the report:

They found every label was inaccurate, with many overcharging consumers, agency spokeswoman Abby Lootens told The News.

"many" is such a wiggle-word. I always assume it means less than half, or they would have said "most". Probably considerably less than half, or they would have wiggled with "almost half". For me, this kind of phrasing is always a yellow-to-red flag.


So turn it around, and we could say that most customers got more than they bargained for. Of course, that is not much consolation if you were one of the 'few' who got shortchanged. But a simple more/less doesn't tell us anything about the degree. Maybe the under-weights made up 10% of the total, and they were under-weight by a tiny amount?

Mini roast beef sandwiches were all priced at $3.49 for 3 ounces, despite their varying weights, from 4.5 to 5.1 ounces. Similarly, breaded chicken breasts were all priced at $5.99 for 7 ounces, even though the actual weights ranged from 6 to 9.2 ounces.

They sure are generous with the roast beef, but getting 6 ounces of chicken when you paid for 7 is more than just a rounding error. They should do better. But again, was this one sample out of 1,000? A million? Who knows?

I'm an engineer! I need histograms! Standard Deviations! Confidence factors!

-ERD50

 

[haha]

Shoplifting is a serious crime, no matter how small the item and no matter how you try to excuse it. It has nothing to do with moral dilemmas, or any other kind of moral question.

What it concerns is do you want to risk a criminal record, and an always unpredictable interaction with the police, or do you want to either spend more time resolving your issue in the store, or leaving the item.

I think that many things that people call no-brainers are really more complex than thought. However, this is truly a no- brainer. Do not take anything out of a store that you haven't paid for and haven't a receipt to show this payment. Question over.

Ha

 

[Texas Proud]

Kinda reminds me of the Subway foot long sandwich that was not actually a foot long....


My local supermarket has prepared foods... they sell some items by the weight.... you have them put what you want in a container and they weigh it.... or they sell by the piece... I would think that a sandwich should be sold by the piece... you take a look at it and if it does not look like the one you want you just do not buy...

However, with nutritional labels etc., you have to have info and serving sizes on the package... probably got caught up with that...

 

[NW-Bound]

One time, I bought a porcelain light bulb socket at HD to mount in the attic. I dropped it while in the store, breaking it.

I paid for it, took it home, and epoxied it together. It still worked.

 

[JoeWras]

One time, I bought a porcelain light bulb socket at HD to mount in the attic. I dropped it while in the store, breaking it.

I paid for it, took it home, and epoxied it together. It still worked.

That's pretty upstanding.

Many stores accept breakage as part of business. I've broken things and found someone and told them and asked what to do, and I've always been told to not worry about it.

Of course, this was usually mundane stuff like a jar of jelly. Not a fine porcelain shop.

 

[redduck]

...I'm an engineer! I need histograms! Standard Deviations! Confidence factors!
-ERD50

Valium might lessen your overwhelming need for need histograms! Standard Deviations! Confidence factors!