What Abe Lincoln and John Kerry have in Common....

The country is still basically split as it was during the Civil War. Parties have changed ideology. But people have not changed their beliefs.

[wabmester]

That seems like a poor choice of color coding the AP used. I would have made the Lincoln states blue. (Yes, I know he was a "republican," but that term has radically changed meaning over the years.)

Wow GDER! "Huey" indeed ...........A stronger word
(horse poo?) came to my mind but "huey" will do..............as usual my first
impression is: "What are all those folks in the
"blue" areas thinking?" Anyway, I am content to lean strongly toward the party of Lincoln, even as I
feel mostly revulsion about the politics in his home state.
(Obama, Blago, Daley)...................Alas, there is no pony under that pile of horse poo.


JG

Quote:

This is really a bunch of huey. You need to look at the election map by county, instead of by state, for the real patterns.

We elect the pres based on the # electoral votes, not land area. Show me the county by county map from 1860. You're only 1/2 way through your argument, and you haven't discredited Cut-Throat's (yet).

There are many other interesting patterns to look at too. Like income, education, racism, and tolerance.

[MJ]

Quote:

as usual my first impression is: "What are all those folks in the "blue" areas thinking?" JG

Gee JG, it's hard to believe that the close to 58,000,000 voters (the 49% minor vote, remember) live primarily in those sparse blue areas? We Liberals, should expand and take over the barren waste land of America to bring some enlightenment to the backward masses.

MJ

[REWahoo]

What happens if you mix red and blue? You get maroon(ed).

[haha]

Looking at the county by county vote, it seems clear that although it is mainly northeast and west coast large cites that produce blue counties, there are other patterns too. The whole Mississippi Delta is blue. If you have ever been there, you will know that there is nothing liberal or urban about that area. It is rural, poor, and black. Likewise a swath across Alabama is the same.

Similarly, look at the Texas border area. There are no cities of any size there. What is there is Mexicans, legal and otherwise.

Take Arizona and New Mexico. True, Phoenix is a big city, but other than some students and professors, it isn't what most of us would associate with "liberal" Eg., tolerance, pro choice, pro gay, etc., etc. Again, what it is is Mexican.

Demography is destiny. If our immigration policies continue as they are (and maybe even if they are reformed), I believe the Republican majority may well vanish. But the democratic party that arises out of this may not be one that most of you folks would feel served by.

Mikey

[JWV]

Quote:

True, Phoenix is a big city, but other than some students and professors, it isn't what most of us would associate with "liberal" Eg., tolerance, pro choice, pro gay, etc., etc. Again, what it is is Mexican.

I'm not sure the point you were trying to make here but you need to visit Phoenix, many non-Hispanic white Republicans, kind of like a little Orange Co. Was a Bush stronghold from the get-go. I'm embarassed to say that Bush also took Pima Co (Tucson) which is generally more liberal.

Most of us couldn't live the life we enjoy without the economic contribution of "Mexicans" (poor Bernie Kerik) no matter where you live in the US.

And, most of us who live in the southwest greatly enjoy the "Mexican" flavor to the culture and the ideals that many display such as hard work and strong family and community bonds. The toniest addresses are someting like Avenida Via Calle Camino Pendejo not something boring like 5th Ave. It's probably becoming more Republican here because of the cheap nannies, housekeepers and yard work, all paid under the table of course.

Also, we tend to call "legal Mexicans" Americans. You should rent the movie "A Day Without A Mexican."
http://www.esmas.com/adaywithoutamexican/dos.html

[quote]

Gee JG, it's hard to believe that the close to 58,000,000 *voters (the 49% minor vote, remember) live primarily in those sparse blue areas? We Liberals, should expand and take over the barren waste land of America to bring some enlightenment to the backward masses.

If you substitute "Conservatives" for "Liberals", I could have written this post.

JG

[Austin_Explorer]

Quote:

You seem to be a pretty dim bulb to bring enlightment to anything. The red areas are the areas where a majority supported Bush and the blue areas are areas where a majority supported the other guy.

Acres don't vote. People do. And none of the maps in this thread reflect how close the vote actually was.

And resorting to name calling just ruins the board for everyone. I think almost everyone on this board has above average intelligence and we should be able to even discuss politics without resorting to it.

[MJ]

Quote:

You seem to be a pretty dim bulb to bring enlightment to anything. The red areas are the areas where a majority supported Bush and the blue areas are areas where a majority supported the other guy. Perhaps the liberals should just move to leper liberal colonies in the frozen waste land to the north

Quote:

And resorting to name calling just ruins the board for everyone.

I didn't bother responding to GDER's remark as I was making a joke in response to JG about the limited blue versus numerous red counties which apparently GDER didn't get.

MJ :-/

[haha]

Quote:

Also, we tend to call "legal Mexicans" Americans.

Absolutely beautiful sentiment, and I thank you for reminding me. Now, what I can't understand is why although my most recent immigrant ancestor was 6 generations ago, and I speak unaccented English, people feel free to call me Irish. And I admit, although I am American, my Irishness does influence me.

Also, I speak good Spanish, worked in South America for years, and lived in east LA for a while. So I think I am generally well informed about Mexican as well as Mexican-American culture.

It seems that your point pretty well boils down to , "Hey, I like Mexican food, colorful street names and cheap*casual labor. So don't discuss the dark side of this."

But there is a dark side. One unfortunate feature is that there is another underclass, which I won't name for fear of attracting more ill-informed PC Holiness. When was the last time you had a regular African American yard man or household help?

Uh-huh, I thought so.

Maybe they are not as "colorful" as you would like. But they have been here a long time, didn't ask to come, and their problems are only one example of less than ideal outcomes from uncontrolled immigration.

M

[JWV]

Quote:

It seems that your point pretty well boils down to , "Hey, I like Mexican food, colorful street names and cheap casual labor. So don't discuss the dark side of this."

No, you missed the point alogether, I don't think cheap labor is a good thing, nor is expecting people to work back-breaking jobs for little money and no health care. I think it's sadly ironic that the very people who complain about the "problem with Mexicans" want to live on the street with the most exotic sounding name in a house modeled after a hacienda and have a gardener and a nanny and a housekeeper who they can pay below minimum. I think it should be talked about, that's why I brought it up.

Quote:

When was the last time you had a regular African American yard man or household help?

I've never had a "yard man" or household help of any kind (unless you count my husband).

Quote:

Maybe they are not as "colorful" as you would like. But they have been here a long time, didn't ask to come, and their problems are only one example of less than ideal outcomes from uncontrolled immigration.

I couldn't agree with you more.