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Old 03-20-2014, 12:17 PM   #141
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How would the passengers try to take control?
Well I would like to think they would try to get into the cockpit to 'encourage' the pilot to change course or hopefully have someone familiar with airplanes take over. There were 10 other crew members on board. I know flight 93 was not successful in their attempt however I can't see just sitting there looking at the ocean and waiting to run out of fuel.
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:25 PM   #142
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I highly doubt if cell phones were working while whatever were going on. Otherwise, we'd known about them. Either there were no cell towers nearby or whatever happened in the plane disabled cell phone activities.
In my phone, which has a dedicated GPS receiver you do not need a cell tower to get a location. I use it when hiking in the mountains where the nearest cell tower is 50 miles away.
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Old 03-20-2014, 04:13 PM   #143
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Some predictions:

Several of the 'radar contacts' recorded after loss of the transponder will be erroneous. (People used to nice tagged transponder blips are lousy at reading 'raw' radar returns.)

One or more of the 'known' event times the news readers and their pet experts have been stringing together will be wrong. Yes, bored watchstanders have been known to make log entries after the fact, with 'guesstimated' times.

No matter what eventually turns up, dedicated conspiracy theorists won't give up their favorite conspiracy theory. There are books to be sold, and TV appearances to be made...
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:29 PM   #144
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Some predictions:

Several of the 'radar contacts' recorded after loss of the transponder will be erroneous. (People used to nice tagged transponder blips are lousy at reading 'raw' radar returns.)

One or more of the 'known' event times the news readers and their pet experts have been stringing together will be wrong. Yes, bored watchstanders have been known to make log entries after the fact, with 'guesstimated' times.

No matter what eventually turns up, dedicated conspiracy theorists won't give up their favorite conspiracy theory. There are books to be sold, and TV appearances to be made...
How many people still think a missile took down flight 800? On the bright side CNN has an audience again.
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Old 03-20-2014, 05:37 PM   #145
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The only certainty so far is conspiracy theorists will be busy for years to come.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:24 PM   #146
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How many people still think a missile took down flight 800? On the bright side CNN has an audience again.
The town (at least all the families I still know) where the french class that was on flight 800 believe that a missile took it down. Obviously many other people believe it too.

Sounds like doubts about who had what data when are already starting. I think the need for a conspiracy assists some folks deal with tragedy.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:05 PM   #147
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Malaysian government has concluded that the plane crashed into Indian Ocean without survivals. I guess they are going with pure circumstantial evidences.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:24 PM   #148
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The news from Inmarsat seems reasonable and testable. Any company with a plane can fly the proposed route and see if the systems in such a plane "ping" the satellite(s) and produce the same data. Indeed, reports from BBC state:
Quote:
The company told the BBC the new calculation involved crunching far more data and that engineers spent all weekend looking back at previous Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 flights.

They compared the satellite data from those flights with flight MH370 and were able to work out that it went south.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:30 PM   #149
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Malaysian government has concluded that the plane crashed into Indian Ocean without survivals. I guess they are going with pure circumstantial evidences.
I think they have information they are not sharing, however I now believe the most probable scenario is that some catastrophic event happened that incapacitated or killed the crew and passengers. The plane flew until it ran out of fuel. We may never know.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:42 PM   #150
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In my phone, which has a dedicated GPS receiver you do not need a cell tower to get a location. I use it when hiking in the mountains where the nearest cell tower is 50 miles away.
Most phones will do that, as you mention. The only other point is that the local map must already be in memory, and not from a cell net.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:06 PM   #151
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Malaysian government has concluded that the plane crashed into Indian Ocean without survivals. I guess they are going with pure circumstantial evidences.
I thought it odd, like there was pretty much..nothing, nothing and then suddenly a deduced smoking gun? Guess it's human tendency to fill in the blanks even though we don't know for sure.
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:20 PM   #152
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In this story it seemed very difficult to get any useful information from even relatively good sources such as the BBC or CNN. They seem to sprinkle in together all kinds of levels of information, from all kinds of sources. Hard to separate out what was being reported from official sources from what was being surmised elsewhere. And I don't think there was even a token effort to do that. Better to keep viewers tuned in than really reporting what was known. All this has made me even more wary of the 24 hour news networks. Seems they did a pretty lousy job of reporting on this story, separating sources or fact from opinion, etc. A lot of us here are engineers, doctors, etc, I can't imagine doing our work as poorly as these networks were doing theirs without getting fired. Was I expecting too much?
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Old 03-24-2014, 08:44 PM   #153
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Yes.

Problem: The 24 hour news stations are for profit organizations. They have to fill their air time with something. CNN went wire to wire with the story. And, guess what, their viewer ship soared. So the others followed. Not a day went by that I did not hear some expert or talking head make a stupid statement. But, people still listened. So who is really at fault?

At least today's announcement seemed to be based on some sort of science. The satellite tracking company, Inmarsat, applied some sort of algorithms to their data, never before used, and told the Malaysian government the bird was in the Indian Ocean. They, in turn, announced it to the world. Are they right. I don't know, but I have no reason to think they think otherwise.
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What happened to (where is) the missing Malaysian Airline?
Old 03-24-2014, 08:46 PM   #154
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What happened to (where is) the missing Malaysian Airline?

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Was I expecting too much?

In a word... Yes.
I was involved in several similar events during my military career and during my second career as a government contractor. In this type of event the news sources are always reaching for information and are led into many directions. Rarely are the facts correct as cited by the media. It takes time for organizations involved to gather their facts and often choose to not divulge what is known. At times there may be some deception put into play. But the news agencies are looking for anything to fill their broadcast time and manufacture news to accomplish it. Eventually facts find their way into the news, but not all the facts,
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:05 PM   #155
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Every time I've been truly "in the know" about an important event, the press has gotten significant aspects very wrong.

The Malaysian government announcement is interesting, but I will feel a lot more confident that the dots have truly been connected when I hear it from experts who have seen the data, understand the process by which it was analyzed and what assumptions were required, and reached their own conclusions. A political figure gets his information from others, and both they and he have lots of interests that don't match mine.

What best suits the interests of the Malaysian government right now? They want the region-wide hunt for the plane and possible survivors to stop (it costs them resources and highlights their less-than-stellar performance in the opening days of the crisis). They want the search for the wreckage to begin, preferably far from Malaysia and requiring resources they don't have (again--saves resources). Are the interests of the Malaysian government advanced by finding this aircraft? Hmmm. Either a bad person (crew or passenger) got on that plane in Malaysia, or something went very wrong with a plane that was maintained under the auspices of the Malaysian civil air authorities. An enduring mystery" is more compatible with the interests of the present government than either of those explanations.

I am NOT saying that the plane isn't in the Indian Ocean. I think it probably is, and I don't think the Malaysian government is engaging in some sort of plot to misdirect the world. I'm just saying that the info we're getting is from a Malaysian government that benefits by the spotlight being directed to a nonsurvivable crash in the Indian Ocean (regardless of the actual location of the plane).
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:28 PM   #156
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Malaysian government has concluded that the plane crashed into Indian Ocean without survivals. I guess they are going with pure circumstantial evidences.
I suspect that they are going with the only evidence that they have.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:32 PM   #157
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The following article indicates that the experts were able to measure a Doppler shift in the signals between the plane and satellite, thereby allowing them to get a reasonably accurate fix on the direction the plane was flying, as well as the position at the time of each contact. Apparently the direction of the flight was incompatible with the northern arc.

If this report is true, then it's old technology applied in a very novel setting.

How 'groundbreaking' number crunching found path of Flight 370 - CNN.com
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:37 PM   #158
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I heard that a mitigating factor that caused them to discount the northern arc was a view that the plane would have shown up on somebody's radar, but didn't.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:12 PM   #159
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The circumstances of this incident are really challenging, I don't think any other SE Asian airline could have done any better. What really bothers me is that there was hazardous cargo on board. Seems to me that our decision to fly Delta to and from SE Asia was wise.
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Old 03-25-2014, 06:10 AM   #160
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Every time I've been truly "in the know" about an important event, the press has gotten significant aspects very wrong.
I could not agree more.

That was the hardest thing about retiring from my gummint job; I was no longer in the know, and it was often very frustrating. Took years to get over that feeling.
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