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View Poll Results: What is your political affiliation?
Democrat 35 36.46%
Libertarian 10 10.42%
Republican 22 22.92%
Independent 24 25.00%
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 02:14 PM   #41
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

It's hard to imagine Billary being worse than W...

Both primaries should be interesting!
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 02:18 PM   #42
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
Where is Al anyway?* I haven't heard a peep from him in years.*
Ole Al is back down south with Pres Billy drinking beer, chasing skirts and grabbing the ladies' butts.* They know how to have fun.......not like those ole prud GOP guys. *They'll both be back! *One of 'em as First Gentleman!
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 02:19 PM   #43
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
So if it is your intention vote for a third party canidate to help 1 of the 2 major party candidates that you disagree with the most, then your vote is not worthless! So we agree, you just misread my post.
OOPS! *My apologies - low on caffeine this morning.

I sometimes say that Ross Perot is the last candidate I voted "FOR" in a national election; other than that, I vote against.

But, I don't have to be registered with either of the major parties to vote against either of the major parties.

The main reason to change my registration to Independent is to express, however indirectly, that the Republicans are no longer the same party they were when I registered with them XX years ago. *

I won't register Democrat for the same reason. *

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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 02:38 PM   #44
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
I gave some serious thought to donating a chunk of change to the Green Party in 2000.* I figured they are so strapped for cash that what little I had to give would be put to better use (luring voters away from Gore) than if I donated to the Republican party directly.* You may see me propping up the Green party candidate in 2008, especially if Hillary runs for office.*
I enjoyed watching Badnarik and Cobb debate in 2004, it might not matter in the grand scheme of things, but they seemed like a breath of fresh air.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 06:21 PM   #45
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote from: Cut-Throat on January 11, 2006, 10:25:21 PM
"If Gore was President, we would not have invaded Iraq and wasted Billions of dollars and thousands of lives."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
As opposed to when he was VP and we had at least one carrier battlegroup on station year-round doing the same thing every night?

Sure, I miss Professor Gore, and the Internet seems to run poorly without his supervision...

<GRIN-GRIN>* Normally I never watch any of the major 3 networks for my daily news (thank God for the Fox News Channel!) but over the Christmas holiday's I was forced into it by my big (liberal) brother and we watched Tim Russert. He was interviewing Tom Brokaw and Ted Koppel on the events of 2005 and "lo-and-behold" I agreed with both of them when they agreed that if Al Gore had been president after 9-11 he too would have most certainly attacked Saddam Hussein's Iraq. My brother then sunk a notch in his chair when I grunted in agreement.

If you don't believe that Al Gore or any other democrat wouldn't have attacked Iraq then you most certainly DON"T need a course in political science 101 but you need a course in the reality of spin, and political positioning.*

Instead of having the courage to do what's right no matter what and just what George W did in Iraq (and what Al Gore would have done)* the democrat's current political strategy* in this situation is to* simply put themselves in a position where they can spin their support or opposition to whatever the outcome might be. It doesn't take guts and it doesn't take courage... "positioning" is the easiest thing that a politician can do and is regularly employed by whatever oppositon party is currently not in power... this case being the democrats.

While I don't agree with everything, I do admire Bush's courage to stand firm in his belief to fight terror. Whether it's low poll numbers or entertaining democrat "positioning", GWB is standing firm concerning the war on terror and that is how he will be ultimately judged by future historian's... no matter how many positions (or justifications) that the democrat's choose to take. But then again, this battle was already decided by a 4 million vote win by Bush in the '04 election because Kerry made Iraq the centerpiece of his failed presidential bid as I recall.

Don't need no course in political science to figure out this one and normally the biased liberal leaning media don't help me either... but in this case maybe they got it right!

Anyhow, what was the original topic of this thread anyhow?* ... oh yeah, I might add that I would rather be referred to as a southern conservative rather than affiliated with a particular political party. Political parties seem to confine my core convictions too much. I am a conservative first. Granted, I do vote republican much more but here in the south even the democrat's are quite conservative and I like a lot of them also.

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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 06:47 PM   #46
 
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Normally I never watch any of the major 3 networks for my daily news (thank God for the Fox News Channel!) but over the Christmas holiday's I was forced into it by my big (liberal) brother and we watched Tim Russert.
I would have guessed that by now. : - You probably get most of your information from the Rush Limbaugh show.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-12-2006, 07:31 PM   #47
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBird
Quote from: Cut-Throat on January 11, 2006, 10:25:21 PM
"If Gore was President, we would not have invaded Iraq and wasted Billions of dollars and thousands of lives."



<GRIN-GRIN>* Normally I never watch any of the major 3 networks for my daily news (thank God for the Fox News Channel!) but over the Christmas holiday's I was forced into it by my big (liberal) brother and we watched Tim Russert. He was interviewing Tom Brokaw and Ted Koppel on the events of 2005 and "lo-and-behold" I agreed with both of them when they agreed that if Al Gore had been president after 9-11 he too would have most certainly attacked Saddam Hussein's Iraq. My brother then sunk a notch in his chair when I grunted in agreement.

If you don't believe that Al Gore or any other democrat wouldn't have attacked Iraq then you most certainly DON"T need a course in political science 101 but you need a course in the reality of spin, and political positioning.*

Instead of having the courage to do what's right no matter what and just what George W did in Iraq (and what Al Gore would have done)* the democrat's current political strategy* in this situation is to* simply put themselves in a position where they can spin their support or opposition to whatever the outcome might be. It doesn't take guts and it doesn't take courage... "positioning" is the easiest thing that a politician can do and is regularly employed by whatever oppositon party is currently not in power... this case being the democrats.

While I don't agree with everything, I do admire Bush's courage to stand firm in his belief to fight terror. Whether it's low poll numbers or entertaining democrat "positioning", GWB is standing firm concerning the war on terror and that is how he will be ultimately judged by future historian's... no matter how many positions (or justifications) that the democrat's choose to take. But then again, this battle was already decided by a 4 million vote win by Bush in the '04 election because Kerry made Iraq the centerpiece of his failed presidential bid as I recall.

Don't need no course in political science to figure out this one and normally the biased liberal leaning media don't help me either... but in this case maybe they got it right!*

Anyhow, what was the original topic of this thread anyhow?* ... oh yeah, I might add that I would rather be referred to as a southern conservative rather than affiliated with a particular political party. Political parties seem to confine my core convictions too much. I am a conservative first. Granted, I do vote republican much more but here in the south even the democrat's are quite conservative and I like a lot of them also.

I saw that show and that's not what happened.

Almost everyone is for the war on terror. The support for invasion of Afganistan was widespread and still is.

The war on Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror. The administration has admited that over and over again, although they certainly did their best to confuse the two issues initially. And it worked. We still have people in this country supporting the war in Iraq because they say they are against terrorism and the 9/11 attacks.

They hear people on TV talk about the war on terrorism and they associate that with this second war against Iraq.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-13-2006, 07:32 AM   #48
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
I would have guessed that by now. :* - You probably get most of your information from the Rush Limbaugh show.
You forgot Fox "News".
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-13-2006, 08:21 AM   #49
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
You forgot Fox "News".*
Anyone here read www.factcheck.org on a regular basis? I don't mind watching any media, but I tend to always ponder it later and do a little research.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #50
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ((^+^)) SG
I saw that show and that's not what happened.

Almost everyone is for the war on terror.* The support for invasion of Afganistan was widespread and still is.*
According to my research of the original transcript for this particular "Meet The Press" show with Tim Russert which aired on Christmas day, 2005 I found the following :

MR. RUSSERT:* And they were not questioning whether Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.

MR. BROKAW:* No.* No.* No.

MR. RUSSERT:* That seemed to be a uniformly held belief.

MR. BROKAW:* Right.* Yeah.

MR. KOPPEL:* Nor did the Clinton administration beforehand.

MR. BROKAW:* No.

MR. KOPPEL:* I mean, the only difference between the Clinton administration and the Bush administration was 9/11.

MR. BROKAW:* Right.

MR. KOPPEL:* If 9/11 had happened on Bill Clinton's watch, he would have gone into Iraq.

MR. BROKAW:* Yeah.* Yeah.


This is just a short snip from the original transcript which can be found at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10531436/

I originally said that Al Gore would have gone into Iraq if he had been president when Ted Koppel actually said that "If 9/11 had happened on Bill Clinton's watch, he would have gone into Iraq."

But this still changes nothing about my original point in that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, or any other democrat IMO would have also gone into Iraq after 9-11 and to think otherwise is to admit that you are quite nieve to the spin of political "positioning" which has recently been maximized shamelessly by the democrat's... but the republican's aren't immune. It's just the nature of the beast in politics. I'd also betcha that the left-leaning Tom Brokaw & Ted Koppel would also agree... and did agree concerning what the Clinton Administration would have done in Iraq had 9-11 occured on their watch.

It's amazing to me how many folks can so easily be persuaded by the dominant left-leaning media and are unable to sort facts from fiction... and especially the games that all politicians play.

Quote:
The war on Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror.
Correct, the good people of Iraq had nothing to do with one of the most evil men since Hitler. Saddam the sociopath didn't blink twice in hesitating to gas his own citizens and his willigness to do the same to his neighbors including Israel. Saddam was a "weapon of mass destruction" and no one (except the far-far left) can say that the world was not more than fair in giving this madman 12 looooong years to come clean and prove that he wasn't a threat. He didn't so after every effort was made and the inspectors were thrown out for the umpteenth time... well, you know the rest as Saddam now sits in his little cell awaiting his execution by the good people of Iraq.

Saddam wasn't yet trying to make nuclear weapons because he hadn't yet rounded up all of the materials to do so when allied forces put him and his killing machine out of business, but if you believe that he and his cronie's weren't trying then we're obviously living on different planets and looking through different visors on the world. A simple search will quickly reveal Saddam's nuclear ambitions from the time that he was vice-president.

Saddam didn't hesitate to use weapons of mass destruction on the Kurd's, unless you disagree with military weapons experts in that chemical weapons aren't weapons of mass destruction.

And if you believe that Saddam wasn't a threat to the U.S. then I respectfully must disagree. I do know that a single madman who had already proved his madness repeadedly, over and over again, and would not allow instant and surprise inspections of suspected weapons sites, then repeadedly threw out the inspectors, does create an aire of suspicion.

And if you don't believe that Saddam was a great threat to the world then going into the depts of geo-politic's and the* catastrophic consequences that could be caused by the chain reactions ignited by one single madman within a very unstable part of the world could be devastating, not only to the U.S. but to the entire world.

Just one dirty bomb detonated in the correct location would leave civilization (and especially my FIRE) in a state from which we might never recover. To believe that Saddam wasn't willing and working toward such a goal is to be nieve.

Just as Tom Brokaw and Ted Koppel agreed... you'd better believe that Clinton would have done the same thing in Iraq. Presidents can't afford to play the spin and political positioning game to the degree that* congressmen can when it comes to the matter of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 08:58 AM   #51
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

A couple of fine points I think might be worthy of inserting here. Note that I'm not going to suggest that Hussein was a sweet guy or anything. I think it might be worthwhile to note that the first thing a nation does when it goes to war is demonize the other guy.

Saddam Hussein did kill a hell of a lot of people who were trying to overthrow him. He used gas on them. Abraham Lincoln killed a hell of a lot of people who just wanted to secede from his country and do things differently. His troops used gas on those people too. Woodrow Wilson also authorized US troops to use gas on our enemies during the first world war.

Hussein made and used weapons of mass destruction and would likely have made and used more if given the opportunity. He had a handful of major insurgent population groups within his own borders. He had a handful of neighbors that would have invaded his country and killed him in a heartbeat if they thought his ability to strike back was weak. So he probably had a to walk a thin line between self preserving chest thumping and not giving the US/UN the idea that he actually had something and was going to use it.

Hussein is such a violent madman that we supported him and his regime through war efforts and due to his charity work he was given the keys to the city of Detroit.

As we're finding out, its hard to keep a thumb on the crazy people in Iraq without being pretty tough with them. As we're going to find out, its going to be a real treat to keep a thumb on Iraq's neighbors without the buffer that Hussein provided between Iran and Saudi Arabia/Israel.

The bottom line is that we had whittled Husseins military and influence in the area to a nub. He had nothing and no real way to do anything to us, although I guess anythings possible. We left him there as long as we could to act as a buffer and when it became obvious that he could no longer perform in that role, we moved in to secure the area for a variety of economic and political reasons. I just dont think that the prospect of his using or sponsoring an attack on the US was in the top three.

Freebird, I actually dont agree with a good number of things you said, but respect your opinion. You might want to leave out the 'naive' comments until you do a little more reading in perspective, or at least spell it correctly
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 09:50 AM   #52
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

The US is only doing what every dominating government in history has tried to do: preserve power. Other governments in the world either feel a sense of comfort knowing their system is protected by the US, or they feel they need to overcome the US and make themselves the new dominating government.

No matter what you think of the recent history of Afganistan and Iraq (and Libya for that matter), those countries will not attack us in the foreseeable future, just like Europe and Japan will not attack us in the foreseeable future.

Next on the plate are Iran and North Korea, and maybe some other pain-in-the-ass country that wants to get closer to equalized (or greater) military power with the US.

No matter who is president, the US will always try to preserve power by curtailing the military ambitions of other countries, otherwise we are doomed.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 02:37 PM   #53
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ()
A couple of fine points I think might be worthy of inserting here.* Note that I'm not going to suggest that Hussein was a sweet guy or anything.* I think it might be worthwhile to note that the first thing a nation does when it goes to war is demonize the other guy.

Saddam Hussein did kill a hell of a lot of people who were trying to overthrow him.* He used gas on them.* Abraham Lincoln killed a hell of a lot of people who just wanted to secede from his country and do things differently.* His troops used gas on those people too.* Woodrow Wilson also authorized US troops to use gas on our enemies during the first world war.
Good golly, Miss* Molly, this does put it in a new light.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 02:55 PM   #54
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

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Originally Posted by FreeBird
that if Al Gore had been president after 9-11 he too would have most certainly attacked Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
What is the link between 9/11 and Iraq again? Other then it's kinda close to where the terrorists came from (Saudi) and where the head honcho was residing (Afghanistan).
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 03:06 PM   #55
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Bush's attack on Iraq did not have much of anything to do with the war on terror. And there are plenty of other countries adverse to us with weapons of mass destruction, North Korea for one.

Bad, bad mistake at best.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 06:07 PM   #56
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

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Originally Posted by ()


Saddam Hussein did kill a hell of a lot of people who were trying to overthrow him.* He used gas on them.* Abraham Lincoln killed a hell of a lot of people who just wanted to secede from his country and do things differently.* His troops used gas on those people too.* Woodrow Wilson also authorized US troops to use gas on our enemies during the first world war.
Wow! Saddam, Abraham, and Woodrow all paralleled in the very same paragraph. Sometimes silence is the best response as your paragraph speaks volumes.* :

Quote:
Freebird, I actually dont agree with a good number of things you said, but respect your opinion.* You might want to leave out the 'naive' comments until you do a little more reading in perspective, or at least spell it correctly
Thanks for the compliment and likewise ... and perhaps the accusation of "naive" is a bit too powerful (Hey, I think I spelled nieve "currect" this time!* ) as you're definitely knowledgeable but on the other hand I'm confident that most readers 'n lurkers can draw their own "perspective" between Hussein, Lincoln, and Wilson.

Posted by: Martha :
Quote:
Bush's attack on Iraq did not have much of anything to do with the war on terror.* And there are plenty of other countries adverse to us with weapons of mass destruction, North Korea for one.*

Bad, bad mistake at best.
Throughout time, right or wrong, great leaders have made many difficult decisions... that is what courage and leadership are all about. In the end the Iraqi people must choose to fight for their own freedom and only time will tell for sure. If the Iraqis' do choose a representative government* then GWB will most definitely be recorded in history alongside the greatest, just as Ronald Reagan stood up to the USSR despite a lot of peoples belief that he was cultivating WWIII, but that wall did come down and the historians are begining to record the truths about this peace driven man!

If freedom in Iraq fails then it will not be the fault of the coalition leaders and the very brave soldiers who provided them with one of the most unique opportunities for their future that has ever come down the pipe during thousands of years of turmoil. It's their choice.* And if the last two free elections are any indication then things are looking good as indicated by hundred's of thousands of beautiful purple thumbs!

Edited to add something to actually answer your question (Ole dopey me ) All I can say is that George W. Bush, Tony Blair, most of congress, and myself did see a powerful connection with Saddam Hussein and terrorism after 9-11, but I do respect your opinion! See the details of my previous posts for details.

And note that I draw a very big difference in "attacking the good people of Iraq" and the madman Saddam Hussein. Big difference!
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 06:34 PM   #57
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

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Originally Posted by FreeBird
All I can say is that George W. Bush, Tony Blair, most of congress, and myself did see a powerful connection with Saddam Hussein and terrorism after 9-11, but I do respect your opinion! See the details of my previous posts for details.
The Downing Street memo, the uranium details pulled out of the speech and put back in, and the Plame mission indicated that there was no connection.

What "powerful" connection was there that mis-led everyone? Thanks.

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...593607,00.html
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 06:39 PM   #58
 
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So, when are you Yanks invading North Korea, or the fact that they have a huge Army and Air Force dissuade you

Madass was a ruthless Dictator, so is Muwgabe, so are any more than a dozen others, Iraquis did not attack the US , Saudies did, so is the real reason Oil

The US and the UK will pull out of Iraq, the country will descend into chaos, the people will long for the certainty of Madass's reign.

Afghanistan, don't worry, we Canadians are there, UN Mandate, J2 are in country.(they make your Green Berets look like Boy Scouts).

Sorry to be so blunt.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 06:51 PM   #59
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

I can only speak for this Yank, and I hope the answer is never! I would love to see all war end everywhere! Just because we live in a country, does not mean that we agree with everything that is done by our leaders. I personally will keep voting and I will pray for guidance and wisdom for whomever our elected leaders are at the time. Not sure what else we can do.
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Re: What is your political affiliation?
Old 01-14-2006, 08:22 PM   #60
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Re: What is your political affiliation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard
So, when are you Yanks invading North Korea, or the fact that they have a huge Army and Air Force dissuade you??

Korea has already been done. (To a point).

But Canada, there's an idea.


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