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Old 12-27-2011, 03:26 PM   #21
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So if every single person on the planet could download best sellers from the library instead of from an ebook store (Amazon, the publisher, the author)....
Yes, in that case we could have one library (just the way we have one Amazon.com), but there would be no brick and mortar building that people would visit.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:30 PM   #22
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But getting kicked out of electronic story hour for not shushing will not be nearly as much fun for the little kiddles.
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:48 PM   #23
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Story hour will be done in the community center. Online access for people without computers will be done in the community center.

Community centers are great, but if it doesn't have a bunch of paper books, it's not a library.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:02 PM   #24
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You will probably have to download your ePubs to Adobe Digital Editions on the PC and then...uh, oh. Now I don't know what will happen. Digital Editions is designed to work with the library's DRM - you won'tl just be able to copy them over to iBooks and read them. I take off the DRM so I can take my time reading my library books on any reader (including iBooks) but that is probably illegal (although I consider it simple time shifting) and is not something I would recommend most people messing with.

Wait, Googled it and it sounds like there is an app that will handle the DRM on the iPad -- Bluefire: Reading Library eBooks on your iPad, Android, eReader and iPhone.
Thank you donheff! This forum is so useful
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:04 PM   #25
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My library has overdrive and it is so simple to use . I click for the Kindle version and it is downloaded directly to my Kindle Fire in moments . It's so easy I now have my 95 year old Mom using it .
I know......but Amazon has not made it available in Canada. I am sure it will be along in a few months.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:06 PM   #26
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We love going to our main library. It is large, spacious, clean, has an extensive and up-to-date collection of (paper) books, plus wi-fi and even computer access. Even better, it is usually pretty much deserted. It also has plenty of Kindle books, so we have access to that service online.

But the library of the future? Let me tell you a story about that.

The branch library near F. was completely and utterly destroyed by Hurricane Katrina in 2005. After demolition and fundraising, it is almost re-built. We have been watching the construction. As far as we can tell, the new library (unlike the old one) appears to be only perhaps 2000 square feet or less in size. We can't imagine that much of anything would fit in there, other than a desk for the librarian, some tables, and some computer terminals. But, the sign says it will be a library. So, we fear that while this new library is a lovely building, and obviously no corners were cut, it may house an electronic library only.

Of course, we could be wrong. It is almost finished and we noticed the lights were even on inside it yesterday. Pretty exciting! When it finally opens, I will provide an update if I remember to do so. I have a feeling that when we see it we will feel shellshocked.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:11 PM   #27
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In my small town, a group of people are raising money to build a library. After seeing how people view this topic (Stupid to Plan a Library?), I decided there was no point in even bringing up the idea that perhaps it will be a waste of money.

I also love libraries, and go about once a week. But...

Of course libraries will disappear soon.

Think of it this way:

If every single person on the planet preferred to read a book on an eReader rather than on paper, would there be any libraries? No.

So then the only question is how long will it take before people prefer eReaders? Look at the acceleration of sales of eReaders. Also, look at how much better the latest ereaders are.

The coming obsolescence of the library is as obvious as the coming obsolescence of the film camera was 12 years ago, but as it was back then, many people refuse to see it.
I wonder who owns the rights to the ebooks? I remember the publishers and lawsuits about this a couple of years back but forget the outcome? If the libraries have rights thru the state and local governments, can't you see an argument the other way? That in fact it could be the Amazons that go belly up? After all, the ebooks from the libraries would be free. I don't think the state governments will allow the businesses like Amazon to do away with the services they offer for free. Could get very interesting.
The question in my mind is who or what controls those rights?
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:18 PM   #28
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I wonder who owns the rights to the ebooks? I remember the publishers and lawsuits about this a couple of years back but forget the outcome? If the libraries have rights thru the state and local governments, can't you see an argument the other way? That in fact it could be the Amazons that go belly up? After all, the ebooks from the libraries would be free. I don't think the state governments will allow the businesses like Amazon to do away with the services they offer for free. Could get very interesting.
The question in my mind is who or what controls those rights?
The publishers sell licenses to the library. They can then lease the book out serially to users. One license - one reader at a time. The controversy is arising over some publishers limiting the number of loans and time of a license. A hardback can be loaned out for decades until it wears out but e-licenses expire.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:23 PM   #29
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I wonder who owns the rights to the ebooks? I remember the publishers and lawsuits about this a couple of years back but forget the outcome? If the libraries have rights thru the state and local governments, can't you see an argument the other way? That in fact it could be the Amazons that go belly up? After all, the ebooks from the libraries would be free. I don't think the state governments will allow the businesses like Amazon to do away with the services they offer for free. Could get very interesting.
The question in my mind is who or what controls those rights?
It is an interesting question indeed. But libraries loan hard cover books free as well, presumably reducing the number of copies publishers sell. I suspect it's only because it began long ago when civic duty meant more? If hardcovers were just being introduced today, I wonder if they'd fight libraries...not looking for discussion, just interesting to me at least.
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Old 12-27-2011, 06:00 PM   #30
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I recently retired in September and I have not been to a library in years. Now that I have the time I think I will go visit.

I think that libraries are facing the same problems as the post office. I think that both will be are around, but both will have to undergo some big changes.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:20 PM   #31
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I wonder who owns the rights to the ebooks? I remember the publishers and lawsuits about this a couple of years back but forget the outcome? If the libraries have rights thru the state and local governments, can't you see an argument the other way? That in fact it could be the Amazons that go belly up? After all, the ebooks from the libraries would be free. I don't think the state governments will allow the businesses like Amazon to do away with the services they offer for free. Could get very interesting.
The question in my mind is who or what controls those rights?
The author/publisher own the rights, no question. They can choose to let a library lend out their books for free, and they can put on any restrictions they want. For example, they can specify that only a few copies of an ebook can be out at a given time.

The amazons won't go belly up, because if publishers find that the free lending of the libraries cuts into their sales, they will add more restrictions.

I worry that the demise of the libraries will also be the demise of free books.

The idea of local libraries lending out ebooks is also flawed. I could take out an ebook from a library in London as easily as from the library down the street, so why have separate administration, etc? There are 27 separately administered Overdrive sites in California alone. The local librarians really don't know how that much about it, and over the Christmas holidays, their server crashed and there was no one to fix it.

I wonder if publishers will realize this and have their own web sites where they have free but restricted access to free copies of their books. They would reap the ad revenue, and also get a chance to plug their other ebooks.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:26 PM   #32
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The author/publisher own the rights, no question. They can choose to let a library lend out their books for free, and they can put on any restrictions they want. For example, they can specify that only a few copies of an ebook can be out at a given time.
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I wonder if publishers will realize this and have their own web sites where they have free but restricted access to free copies of their books. They would reap the ad revenue, and also get a chance to plug their other ebooks.
Authors are realizing this too. With today's technology, who needs publishers?
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:38 PM   #33
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The author/publisher own the rights, no question. They can choose to let a library lend out their books for free, and they can put on any restrictions they want. For example, they can specify that only a few copies of an ebook can be out at a given time.

The amazons won't go belly up, because if publishers find that the free lending of the libraries cuts into their sales, they will add more restrictions.

I worry that the demise of the libraries will also be the demise of free books.

The idea of local libraries lending out ebooks is also flawed. I could take out an ebook from a library in London as easily as from the library down the street, so why have separate administration, etc? There are 27 separately administered Overdrive sites in California alone. The local librarians really don't know how that much about it, and over the Christmas holidays, their server crashed and there was no one to fix it.

I wonder if publishers will realize this and have their own web sites where they have free but restricted access to free copies of their books. They would reap the ad revenue, and also get a chance to plug their other ebooks.
Thanks for the explanations donheff and tromboneAl. All good points. Anyone have any thoughts about ebooks being pirated like the music industry.?
Had Thanksgiving dinner with my sister. A friend of hers was there. She made the statement that she was buying books. Not just any old book but nice leather bound copies of the classics and so forth. She feels that books will be "worth something" in the years and decades to come. Probably after I'm long gone.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:45 PM   #34
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It is an interesting question indeed. But libraries loan hard cover books free as well, presumably reducing the number of copies publishers sell. I suspect it's only because it began long ago when civic duty meant more? If hardcovers were just being introduced today, I wonder if they'd fight libraries...not looking for discussion, just interesting to me at least.
Good point Midpack. One would think there would always be a need for the free services provided. Libraries will probably get to the point that have e-readers to lend too! Just like they all now have computers for free use.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:03 AM   #35
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Thanks for the explanations donheff and tromboneAl. All good points. Anyone have any thoughts about ebooks being pirated like the music industry.?
I worry about it becoming a big deal because then they will make it difficult or impractical for me to time shift my library eBooks. But I listened to an NPR show on eBooks the other day and the guests mentioned that piracy has not become a significant problem for the book publishing industry yet. They speculated that the book buying public is older and more affluent and less likely to steal books than kids are to steal music. I suspect that books that get cult like followings among teen-age thru 20 something males will end up posted on torrent sites all over.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:29 AM   #36
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The idea of local libraries lending out ebooks is also flawed. I could take out an ebook from a library in London as easily as from the library down the street, so why have separate administration, etc? There are 27 separately administered Overdrive sites in California alone. The local librarians really don't know how that much about it, and over the Christmas holidays, their server crashed and there was no one to fix it.

I wonder if publishers will realize this and have their own web sites where they have free but restricted access to free copies of their books. They would reap the ad revenue, and also get a chance to plug their other ebooks.
A good point that hadn't occurred to me, centralizing only makes sense.

We have about 400 music CD's, but we haven't bought one in more than 5 years because we buy all our music from iTunes. It only makes sense that books may follow the same path. You can already buy eBooks online from a variety of sources, less expensive (though not cheap IMO) and more convenient than hard cover books. And classics and many older books in eBook form are already free online, somewhat like the library model.

I also don't believe the community center role is enough to keep libraries fully intact, as others have already noted.

Guess I'll have to get used to reading on a tablet/eReader one day. I've downloaded several free classics and purchased and read one new eBook - no better no worse an experience IMO.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:09 AM   #37
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I live in a city of ~ 30K and we have a small, but full service library. Our library is far more than just a place to borrow books, dvds, ebooks, magazines. It is kind of a community center where one can get access to PCs, meeting rooms, online research assistance, tax preparation, notary public, entertainment/special events for kids/teens/adult, purchase your TX toll tag, and even a free cup of Star-Bucks coffee. It is also a very comfortable environment to come in out of the cold or heat and sit down and read a newspaper or magazine or do your HS/College/personal research. The library gets very heavy use, has one of the highest transaction rates in the state and is rated one of the best services that our city provides. While I suspect continued expansion of e/virtual services, there would be a major uproar if they tried to take it away.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:18 AM   #38
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There are literally tens of thousands of books available for free download to both Kindles and Nook ereaders. Not just the classics which you can download for free from places like Amazon or Project Gutenberg, but other sites such as Free Books for Your Kindle | eReaderIQ.com that posts hundreds of books each day for download. This particular site is dedicated to Kindle, which I have so I frequent. I am sure there are other sites devoted to Nook. These books can be classics, some best sellers, self-help, gardening, cooking, new authors, business and investing, and on and on.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:20 AM   #39
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I live in a city of ~ 30K and we have a small, but full service library. Our library is far more than just a place to borrow books, dvds, ebooks, magazines. It is kind of a community center where one can get access to PCs, meeting rooms, online research assistance, tax preparation, notary public, entertainment/special events for kids/teens/adult, purchase your TX toll tag, and even a free cup of Star-Bucks coffee. It is also a very comfortable environment to come in out of the cold or heat and sit down and read a newspaper or magazine or do your HS/College/personal research. The library gets very heavy use, has one of the highest transaction rates in the state and is rated one of the best services that our city provides. While I suspect continued expansion of e/virtual services, there would be a major uproar if they tried to take it away.
I understand, I use our local library at least weekly. Our local library is great IMO, though most people use PC's to play games? And we have some poor (homeless?) folks who seem to hang out, even nap at the library especially in winter (they don't cause problems, so no one seems to mind). And I request books online routinely, the wait is never very long even on new books, making me wonder what the traffic in books themselves really is - seems light.

However, most governments at all levels are facing big deficits, otherwise I wouldn't have asked to begin with. No one wants to give up anything (everything is a "major uproar" these days) or pay higher taxes, seemingly something has to give sooner or later.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:27 AM   #40
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I understand, I use our local library at least weekly. However, most governments at all levels are facing big deficits, otherwise I wouldn't have asked to begin with. No one wants to give up anything or pay higher taxes, seemingly something has to give sooner or later.
Thats true, some of the larger cities in the metroplex (eg Fort Worth) are facing fiscal challenges and have closed and consolidated some of their libraries. Interestingly, some of the ones that have survived have seen expansion of facilities and services, but nevertheless resulted in a net reduction to the overall city budget.
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