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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 07:59 AM   #21
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by SLC Tortfeasor
I'm struggling with a lot of the same questions about prenups.

Anybody have any thoughts on these (admittedly very basic) questions?

1. My girlfriend has massive student loan debts, and I have none. If we get married and then divorced, do I have any liability for her debts?

2. My net worth = about $65k (mostly my house). My girlfriend's net worth = about negative $55K (mostly her student loans). In the event of divorce, does she get half my assets?
Didn't you learn the answers in lawschool?

What I have seen judges generally do in MN and WI is divide the marital debts equally and people pay their own debts unless there is a good reason not to. If you are married for a long time and you worked and your spouse didn't, I could see you paying enough maintenance to cover her student loan debt. But if you both work and can support yourselves, most likely she will have to pay her own loans.

Similar results for assets--generally half to each unless there is a good reason not to. If you can identify and have segregated premarital property, you may be able to keep that property. There also is the question of what happens to appreciation on that property after marriage--odds are it will be divided fifty fifty.

Extra disclaimer: I am not a family law lawyer--I just see it happening around me.

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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 10:39 AM   #22
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

Martha if you don't mind, just a bit more clarification.
You used the word property, I'm not sure if it only refers to RE, cars, boats etc.
At the time of marriage, one of the partners comes in with, $1000k investment portfolio (stocks, funds, CDs, cash and no real property) and these remain under that partner's name after the marriage. If the couple divorces after 10 years, will the partner with the original $1000k + $500k growth have to split the $500k in a 50/50 state.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 03:34 PM   #23
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

The thought of a prenup didn't even enter our minds when DH and I married. We discussed everything before we got married and made sure we were on the same page regarding certain issues however, unlike a lot of other people we knew who are divorced now btw.

The only way I would consider a prenup is if I was entering into a second marriage and had assets and/or children to protect from my first marriage.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 04:42 PM   #24
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by MJ
Martha if you don't mind, just a bit more clarification.
You used the word property, I'm not sure if it only refers to RE, cars, boats etc.
At the time of marriage, one of the partners comes in with, $1000k investment portfolio (stocks, funds, CDs, cash and no real property) and these remain under that partner's name after the marriage. If the couple divorces after 10 years, will the partner with the original $1000k + $500k growth have to split the $500k in a 50/50 state.* *
Forget it man! You aren't going to get married.*

ha
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 08:19 PM   #25
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by HaHa
Forget it man! You aren't going to get married.
ha
HaHa, have a little faith, as they say in the lottery promotions, "you never know" .
Of course, we know the chances of winning but I still continue to waste buy 1 lottery ticket when it goes beyond $60,000k. I still hope.

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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 08:52 PM   #26
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

I may be a committed single guy, but if you were going sky diving and were told that 50% of the parachutes don't open, what is wrong with asking for extra-bouncy underwear?
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 09:02 PM   #27
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
I may be a committed single guy, but if you were going sky diving and were told that 50% of the parachutes don't open, what is wrong with asking for extra-bouncy underwear?
Yeh, what's wrong with a little fallout protection.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-01-2005, 11:20 PM   #28
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by MJ
Yeh, what's wrong with a little fallout protection.
Oh man, I am trying to help you guys. Instead of wasting money on mostly useless pre-nups, hire yourself your own Cato Fong, and give him instructions to beat the crap out of you every time you start getting serious about marriage.

This will likely cost less, and is 100% effective.

Ha
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-02-2005, 11:56 AM   #29
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by 73ss454
Only thing I can figure is that you must be a STUD!
Methinks theres another explanation...

As far as the topic, any time I've seen someone prepare for failure, they usually did.

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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-02-2005, 01:49 PM   #30
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BunsOfVeal
I may be a committed single guy, but if you were going sky diving and were told that 50% of the parachutes don't open, what is wrong with asking for extra-bouncy underwear?
When I was at jump school (the one run by the 82nd Airborne at Benning Country Club) they took us eager-beaver students out to a place near the jump zone (not actually IN the jump zone) to gather around an 18"-deep soldier-sized depression in the ground. That spot was about 1500 feet directly below the location where one of the students had not followed the jumpmaster's recommendations on recovering from a parachute problem. Due to his own failure to follow clear directions panic misconduct the student separated himself from his main canopy, attempted to deploy his reserve, and ran out of time.

They said he bounced about four feet the first time. And that was without the special undies. The reserve canopy had deployed enough to serve as his shroud.

But, yeah, let's torture this analogy a little. You could spend more time on jump training or shop at a better parachute store or spend more money for a better parachute, too. While the first store might cheerfully refund your money (to your survivors anyway), in the long run the extra effort on preparation is probably a lot cheaper and certainly less painful than it would be to spend the effort on planning for failure.

Or, as you said, just don't get on the plane in the first place!
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-02-2005, 06:22 PM   #31
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ
Martha if you don't mind, just a bit more clarification.
You used the word property, I'm not sure if it only refers to RE, cars, boats etc.
At the time of marriage, one of the partners comes in with, $1000k investment portfolio (stocks, funds, CDs, cash and no real property) and these remain under that partner's name after the marriage. If the couple divorces after 10 years, will the partner with the original $1000k + $500k growth have to split the $500k in a 50/50 state.
By property, I meant all your assets, including your portfolio. Even if you were married a long time and you supported your wife, you still have a good argument that you are entitled to the original million. The argument is weaker with the 1/2 million growth, but you might be able to argue it is separate property. This is hardly cut and dried. Your young wife, who gave up her career for you, may try to get part of your assets or alimony or both. Don't ask for details--this is way out of my area of knowledge.

MJ, you can't get married. You will destroy my romantic fantasies! If you do, get a pre-nup and don't tell me.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-02-2005, 07:30 PM   #32
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

I think anyone who has any assets to speak of, is crazy to get married WITHOUT a Pre-Nup. This business, "if you love me, you wouldn't ask for such a thing" is pure bull. If your intensions are so good, then you will have no problem signing an agreement.

There are too many deceiptful and cunning people out there, and NO YOU CAN'T TELL THEM BY KNOWING THEM FOR A WHILE. I have a sister who is a prime example of this. God help the next poor soul she gets her hands on. She has taken every man to the cleaners who she married.

The last one, who she made sell most of his retirement stock to buy her everyting she said she must have, finally drew the line when she gave him the ultimatum - "Put your house in my name, or I will leave you." She knew how crazy he was about her, so she thought she could make him do it, but he renaged, and so she left him.

No man ever got to know my sister, until it was too late. She could pull the wool over the best of you out there. So, there is NO REASON ON EARTH NOT TO HAVE A PRE-NUP. And if your mate objects, I'd seriously reconsider marriage. And this is a woman speaking.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-02-2005, 10:20 PM   #33
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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I think anyone who has any assets to speak of, is crazy to get married WITHOUT a Pre-Nup. This business, "if you love me, you wouldn't ask for such a thing" is pure bull. If your intensions are so good, then you will have no problem signing an agreement.

There are too many deceiptful and cunning people out there, and NO YOU CAN'T TELL THEM BY KNOWING THEM FOR A WHILE. I have a sister who is a prime example of this. God help the next poor soul she gets her hands on. She has taken every man to the cleaners who she married.

The last one, who she made sell most of his retirement stock to buy her everyting she said she must have, finally drew the line when she gave him the ultimatum - "Put your house in my name, or I will leave you." She knew how crazy he was about her, so she thought she could make him do it, but he renaged, and so she left him.

No man ever got to know my sister, until it was too late. She could pull the wool over the best of you out there. So, there is NO REASON ON EARTH NOT TO HAVE A PRE-NUP. And if your mate objects, I'd seriously reconsider marriage. And this is a woman speaking.
Sent chills down my spine
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-03-2005, 03:46 PM   #34
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by Martha
Didn't you learn the answers in lawschool?*
I probably did, and then promptly forgot!

Believe me, I recognize how pathetic this is:* I am a lawyer, and yet I ask legal questions anonymously to other anonymous people on the internet who may or may not have helpful answers.

Nonetheless Martha, I think your advice is probably worth more than what I paid for it.* Thanks!
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-03-2005, 04:17 PM   #35
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Nonetheless Martha, I think your advice is probably worth more than what I paid for it.* Thanks!
Another gracious gentleman!

Ha
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-03-2005, 09:46 PM   #36
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

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Originally Posted by Martha
MJ, you can't get married. You will destroy my romantic fantasies! If you do, get a pre-nup and don't tell me.
Martha, not to worry.
To this board, i'll always remain single. I would not want to spoil my "bachelor" image.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-03-2005, 09:55 PM   #37
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

MJ's not been to Thailand yet...

My guess is he'll be married in less than one week from his arrival date...

Billy
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-04-2005, 12:30 AM   #38
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

Nords, now you know I respect your opinion, but I don't think that calling pre-nups "preparing to fail" is fair. As an nuclear engineer, you certainly would not enter into a nuclear submarine knowing that the nuclear sub doesn't have any back up systems and emergency procedures. Why? Do you plan to personally scuttle the sub after 2 week out at sea? The answer obviously would be no, but that doesn't mean that you don't practice the emergency procedures even though U.S. submarines sink at a rate nowhere near 50%.
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-04-2005, 12:34 AM   #39
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
MJ's not been to Thailand yet...

My guess is he'll be married in less than one week from his arrival date...

Billy
Billy, I'm too level headed to do it in less than a week.
I'd give myself at least 2 weeks b4 I breakdown and cry "uncle".
For my honeymoon in Chiang Mai, where can I stay inexpensively, for me, my new wife and her 105 immediate and extended family members? :
There goes the $25/day budget.

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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?
Old 10-04-2005, 12:43 AM   #40
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Re: What's reasonable for a pre-nup?

All kidding aside, we all assume that 2 people, getting married, have the best intentions to make it work but it doesn't prevent 50% of the marriages from failing.
I wonder what % of the failed marriages where there was substantial assets, had one of the partners wishing they had had a pre-nup.
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