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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 09:18 AM   #21
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

I like this religion...makes as much sense as the rest to me: The church of the Flying Spaghetti monster http://www.venganza.org

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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 11:07 AM   #22
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

my first sexual fantasy came true when i was about 3 or 4 years old (i'm not sure exactly when but it was before kindergarten). i had a crush an on older 5 or 6 year old neighbor who'd have nothing to do with me. one night their home caught fire and my mother (who was not even their friend, just an acquaintance) invited them to stay with us until repairs were done. i remember feeling bad for their misfortune, but i couldn't have been happier that this "hunk of a man" was staying with us.

mom raised a happy child, and then unbeknownst to her, a gay one. so of course by the time i was attending hebrew school at age 7 or 8, i didn't consider myself an abomination. the religion, however, felt otherwise. self-preservation kept me from self-incrimination and so i became well adapt at camouflaging my true nature while also becoming quite adept at seeing & exposing the hypocrisy of others.

however, before completely learning discretion i managed to relay to the temple cantor that i thought his religion was full of crap. he threatened to prevent my barmitzva. after considering how my parents would be disappointed (or rather how i'd miss my party and presents), i capitulated and completed my religious training. i did get barmitzva'd, had a fabulous party and haven't been to temple since.

"don't quote leviticus to me unless you've recently sacrificed a goat"~~gay proverb
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 11:51 AM   #23
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
I honestly never understood why people believed in this stuff, and I figured I must be missing something.
The hairball.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #24
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

nm
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:12 PM   #25
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
The hairball.
I have trouble accepting that.* *And if I were religious, I would be offended by those posters who say "be careful, religious people have thin skins -- you'll scare them away!"

I know some very intelligent "believers."* One of my college roommates went on to become a high-profile Rabbi, and I know he'd love this discussion.

So, let me offer a strawman argument.* *Religion can't be supported by logic, but it can be supported by emotion.* *Many people downgrade emotion to second-rate status, but I think it can be argued that emotion is just as important as logic.* *It could be argued that atheists lack a solid emotional framework and emotional support system.* *For example, what does Secular Humanism offer in times of grief and mourning?
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:19 PM   #26
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

I'm just a little sad that some are so bitter and angry towards those of faith. But they don't hold a monopoly, plenty of people doing despicable things in the name of God.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:22 PM   #27
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Hmm, you say you have a problem accepting that its a hairball, then argue that its a hairball.

Okey dokey.

By the way, note that I dont think hairballs are bad or have any negative connotation or mean you've got some kind of problem. Just that they're a complex set of emotional, intellectual and whatnot issues that have combined to make you feel a certain way. Its not, as martha wants to say, irrational. It just is what it is.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:30 PM   #28
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cute Fuzzy Bunny
Hmm, you say you have a problem accepting that its a hairball, then argue that its a hairball.
Tell you what. I'll go lookup "hairball" while you go lookup "straw-man argument."
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:53 PM   #29
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
what does Secular Humanism offer in times of grief and mourning?
Friends (if you got 'em), rationality, history, confidence that you as a human can muster the strength to go on, years of personal experience in emotional self-reliance/sturdiness, permission to cry. Also transforming your grief into active pursuits such as volunteerism, the arts, exercise, writing, posting, travel, new hobbies. Not to mention escapism.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:54 PM   #30
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
I'm just a little sad that some are so bitter and angry towards those of faith.
Well, at least The Humane Society won't let them use the lions any more. Think of all the damaged claws that could result! *8)
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 12:55 PM   #31
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
And if I were religious, I would be offended by those posters who say "be careful, religious people have thin skins -- you'll scare them away!"

You talking about me?

I didn't quite say that.

But I don't think that having a thick skin is a virtue. It just is. And some people have a "thin skin" about what they care about a lot, especially when they perceive they are being insulted.

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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:04 PM   #32
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
. . .*And if I were religious, I would be offended by those posters who say "be careful, religious people have thin skins -- you'll scare them away!"

I know some very intelligent "believers."* One of my college roommates went on to become a high-profile Rabbi, and I know he'd love this discussion. . .
I want to second this position. If I were religious I would be very offended by the notion that the board had to have special rules about my feelings or I would take my ball and go home. Similarly, I would be very offended if I were Zipper and were told that my questions were inappropriate for this board because some of the religious posters might get offended. In effect, this is a statement that he is less important than other posters.

People disagree with each other. We can choose to be offended and leave, we can engage, or we can ignore. This is true regardless of your beliefs.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:06 PM   #33
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Amen
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:14 PM   #34
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee
I want to second this position. If I were religious I would be very offended by the notion that the board had to have special rules about my feelings or I would take my ball and go home. Similarly, I would be very offended if I were Zipper and were told that my questions were inappropriate for this board because some of the religious posters might get offended. In effect, this is a statement that he is less important than other posters.

People disagree with each other. We can choose to be offended and leave, we can engage, or we can ignore. This is true regardless of your beliefs.
\

There are no special rules. This thread exists, doesn't it? But still, I can see why people feel offended when what they believe in is called "brainwashing", "nonsense", "bunk" and "absurd mythology," all words used in the last few posts. Is this a difference of opinion, or being insulting?

I am not religious but I have a sister who is very religious and observes all the corresponding religious practices. I would not insult her by calling what she does and what she believes in nonsense or bunk. I respect her. She also respects me . I may very well have a discussion about religion but without inflammatory words.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:30 PM   #35
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
\

There are no special rules.* This thread exists, doesn't it?* But still, I can see why people feel offended when what they believe in is called "brainwashing", "nonsense", "bunk" and "absurd mythology," all words used in the last few posts.* Is this a difference of opinion, or being insulting?*
I suspect taht if I said you guys are a bunch of Gawdless heathens headed straight to tarnation, you would be offended after you got done laughing.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II
Old 08-03-2006, 01:32 PM   #36
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewer12345
I suspect taht if I said you guys are a bunch of Gawdless heathens headed straight to tarnation, you would be offended after you got done laughing.
I beat you to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
You are all going to hell.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:33 PM   #37
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
\

There are no special rules.* This thread exists, doesn't it?* But still, I can see why people feel offended when what they believe in is called "brainwashing", "nonsense", "bunk" and "absurd mythology," all words used in the last few posts.* Is this a difference of opinion, or being insulting?*

I am not religious but I have a sister who is very religious and observes all the corresponding religious practices.* I would not insult her by calling what she does and what she believes in nonsense or bunk.* I respect her.* She also respects me . I may very well have a discussion about religion but without inflammatory words.
Okay. *I am insulted, but I choose to engage. *

Inflamatory words are not insulting to me. *They are words that convey the thoughts and feelings of someone who is trying to communicate. *They are communicating in a way that is actually very effective. *I understand their position quite well. *They are not holding any cards under the table. *I may not like their opinion. *I may become angry. *But I give them credit for being honest.

I often find "tactful" conversation to be insulting. *People in authoritative positions often think "tact" is more appropriate. *They do not tell me what they are really feeling. *Instead, they try to mask their agenda and avoid conflict. *This is dishonest. *Conflict exists and masking it in "tactful" words and phrases feels like an attempt to lie to me. *It is condescending and insulting that these people feel that their approach to conversation is superior to mine. *It, in effect, is a statement that they think that they are superior to me. *

So if I threaten to leave the boards if one more moderator trys to push their "tact" on me, will you ask posters to stop being so tactful? *
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:38 PM   #38
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

I am a follower of Miss Manners.
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:40 PM   #39
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Nah, I'm not offended by being told that my ideas are wrong, or by foul language or insults. In fact, I was going to point out that the religious folks shouldn't worry: what's a few insults, when the people saying them will go to hell?


ah, sgeeeee posted before I finished this -- what am I needed for if he's already posting!!
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)
Old 08-03-2006, 01:46 PM   #40
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Re: When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeeeee

I often find "tactful" conversation to be insulting.
OK, (I want to be careful here and not insult you ), I consider threads on religion to be nothing more that "verbal masturbation", albeit with nothing approaching a satisfactory outcome. :

It is a total waste of time, no one is convinced or persuaded of anything, and the end result is a lot of people are simply rubbed the wrong way.

But go ahead, abuse amuse yourself...

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