When Did You See the Light? II (danger:religion thread)

[Zipper]

I know I'll receive the wrath of our exalted one Rewahoo, but I'm curious as to when some of you found the light and realized religion to be a joke on humanity.

I was typical of most of you. In the 1950's Canada and the U.S. were equally religious. My mother and grandmothers sent my brother and I to church and Sunday School each week. My father and grandfathers stayed on the sidelines, and as I look back I realize they didn't believe but wanted to keep peace in the family.

By the early 50's after I could read and make sense of things I began to realize that this stuff was all a crock! When I was ~8 we had had enough and my father and grandfathers backed us up.

And I think that's the problem to this day. It won't go away in our lifetime. Parents brainwash their children and the cycle persists. Whether it's christian, muslim or whatever, the goal is to indoctrinate the young before they can think rationally.

I'm glad that Mrs. Zipper and I let our sons develop a normal life without subjecting them to all this nonsense. They are productive Canadians along with my grandchilden, unburdened by religious dogma. They have faith in themselves and not some god thought up by superstitious desert dwellers thousands of years ago.

A Canadian can run politically and not have religion become an issue but I'm certain that an Atheist would have no chance in American politics. Separation of church and state is becoming a little bent down there.

This is sure to bring out the nutjobs foaming at the mouth, but the point is there are many of us who "have seen the light" and think the world would be a much better place without the make-believe stuff from thousands of years ago.

(edited thread name to clarify nature of thread)

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Zipper:

Since you are an infidel, I am sorry, but I will have to kill you now for your blasphemy.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Thanks for hijacking the original topic and subject. It was a great thread -- I was really enjoying it while it lasted.

 

[Mwsinron]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I try and make it a point not to go out of my way to slam others on their personal beliefs.

 

[Lazarus]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I think it was when I was in Basic Training in the Air Force and heard a sermon telling us to be better Airmen from a Preacher who had been in the service less time than we had. Note that Basic was only 6 weeks long then.

Organized religon has a lot of hijackers trying to use it for their own reasons.

 

[spideyrdpd]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I was recently thinking about religion being the best marketed project ever.
I also was wondering how the scientiology guy decided to start a religion. Gee I am bored just finished writing a succesful fantasy book. Hmm maybe I will start a religion ?

 

[Scrooge]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I was recently thinking about religion being the best marketed project ever.
I also was wondering how the scientiology guy decided to start a religion. Gee I am bored just finished writing a succesful fantasy book. Hmm maybe I will start a religion ?

Scientology started out as "Dianetics", a "modern science of mental health", that Hubbard, his editor John W. Campbell, Jr. and others came up with in 1949. In 1951-1952 the early Dianetics network collapsed amidst mutual recriminations and financial problems. At that point Hubbard took it to the next level and it became Scientology.

 

[Kronk]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Around age 12. My parents were members of the Gideons when I was growing up. Summer vacations often were Gideon international conventions. They changed careers in their late 40s and became ministers.

My sister is very religious as well. My grandparents were religious. All my parents' siblings are relgious.

So it took me longer than it should have to figure out that it is a load of bunk.

Over the years I've become less and less tolerant of religion. I can literally feel my stress level rise when I get near churches or religion comes up in discussion.

The whole premise of the thing is absolutely ludicrous. I have a hard time figuring out how otherwise intelligent people believe in this stuff. But then I was overly subjected to this stuff growing up so I have a knee jerk reaction against it.

 

[justin]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

You are all going to hell.

 

[unclemick]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Yep

Already been there - Houston and Dallas pulling a 28 foot Prowler during rush hour - I survived and so can you.

heh heh heh heh

 

[Dog]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

My parents were constantly fighting over money....it stressed me out and I think as a result developed a tendency to horde and a need for security.  My DH has a similar background and enjoys saving too.  We both believe in LBYM and using things until they wear out.  We can easily talk outselves out of buying stuff when tempted...we do enjoy our lifestyle and don't feel like we are missing out on anything.  We leverage our 401k plans and are lucky to have secured pensions.  Early retirement became a goal when I read the Millionaire Next Door and we started noticing some of our class of 76 classmates showing up in the obituary pages.  We are on pace for ER by 55 or earlier and our big worry is that we will end up subsidizing for the lack of planning and excessive lifestyles of others.

 

[Dawg52]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Thanks for hijacking the original topic and subject. It was a great thread -- I was really enjoying it while it lasted. 

I agree Rich. I wish we had a category for politics and religion. That way topics such as this could be moved there for discussion.(A category I would avoid) The way this topic is laid out, most anyone is sucked into reading it. 

 

[Scrooge]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I agree Rich. I wish we had a category for politics and religion. That way topics such as this could be moved there for discussion.

Well, our friendly moderators could always move it to the "Other topics" forum

 

[Arif]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Thanks for hijacking the original topic and subject. It was a great thread -- I was really enjoying it while it lasted.

Not quite what I expected when I clicked on this post. Should have been titled the "evil twin thread." I think I'll watch the fireworks from the sidelines.

 

[haha]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I believe that the people who post here currently are mostly too smart and too respectful of others' feelings to get very involved in a  thread like this.

Ha

 

[wabmester]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

I believe that the people who post here currently are mostly too smart and too respectful of others' feelings to get very involved in a  thread like this.

Heh.

Let's see.   My mom was religious, so I was exposed at an early age.   I remember hearing bible stories and going to Sunday school when I was probably 5-7.

They scared the crap out of me.   Who decided to give angels wings and supernatural powers?   That scared me more than those flying monkeys in the Wizard of Oz!

Anyway, I probably believed in the stuff as much as I did in Santa Claus et al.   I lost my "faith" when I stopped believing in all supernatural things.   Maybe Junior High School?

I honestly never understood why people believed in this stuff, and I figured I must be missing something.   I remember in college, I was approached by some Jehovah's Witness (or something), and I thought "great, I'll listen to this guy and try to understand where he's coming from."   Basically, I think I converted him to atheism with the argument that I could simulate some of the things he considered to be profoundly human with an artificial neural network.

Eventually, I understood that there was more to religions than the absurd mythology, and I appreciate some of the things religions can bring to the table, but I still haven't found any prepublished set of beliefs that appeals to me more than stuff I just make up as I go along.

I still think religion is worth studying, and you do get some cool rituals and songs if you join up with one of the groups.

 

[sgeeeee]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

. . . and you do get some cool rituals and songs if you join up with one of the groups.

Yeah . . . that may be neat, but it would take a cool hat and secret decoder ring to get me to join. Why aren't there any religions that offer that?

By the way, Zipper, I don't mind your in-your-face approach to posting.

 

[wabmester]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

but it would take a cool hat and secret decoder ring to get me to join.  Why aren't there any religions that offer that?

Eh, even the mainstream religions have that stuff.  And if you make it to Bishop or Rabbi, you get some cool outfits to boot.

I offered to form a new religion here a while back, but nobody would follow me.   I wonder what it would take to really get a good religion rolling that had all the benefits and none of the bummers of current religions.

Maybe start with Secular Humanism, and add juggling, back flips, a really cool handshake, hymns by They Might Be Giants, and some Darwinian icons.

 

[brewer12345]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Yeah . . . that may be neat, but it would take a cool hat and secret decoder ring to get me to join.  Why aren't there any religions that offer that?   

Oh , there are, but to get the special decoder ring, you have to become a Cardinal. Somehow I doubt you would want to deny yourself what those guys pass over just to get the ring and the funny hat...

 

[Martha]

Re: When Did You See the Light? II

Last time we had an extensive discussion of religion feelings were hurt and shortly after a good decent poster left.

My God, your God, or no God

 

[farmerEd]

I like this religion...makes as much sense as the rest to me: The church of the Flying Spaghetti monster http://www.venganza.org

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

my first sexual fantasy came true when i was about 3 or 4 years old (i'm not sure exactly when but it was before kindergarten). i had a crush an on older 5 or 6 year old neighbor who'd have nothing to do with me. one night their home caught fire and my mother (who was not even their friend, just an acquaintance) invited them to stay with us until repairs were done. i remember feeling bad for their misfortune, but i couldn't have been happier that this "hunk of a man" was staying with us.

mom raised a happy child, and then unbeknownst to her, a gay one. so of course by the time i was attending hebrew school at age 7 or 8, i didn't consider myself an abomination. the religion, however, felt otherwise. self-preservation kept me from self-incrimination and so i became well adapt at camouflaging my true nature while also becoming quite adept at seeing & exposing the hypocrisy of others.

however, before completely learning discretion i managed to relay to the temple cantor that i thought his religion was full of crap. he threatened to prevent my barmitzva. after considering how my parents would be disappointed (or rather how i'd miss my party and presents), i capitulated and completed my religious training. i did get barmitzva'd, had a fabulous party and haven't been to temple since.

"don't quote leviticus to me unless you've recently sacrificed a goat"~~gay proverb

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I honestly never understood why people believed in this stuff, and I figured I must be missing something.

The hairball.

 

[HFWR]

nm

 

[wabmester]

The hairball.

I have trouble accepting that.   And if I were religious, I would be offended by those posters who say "be careful, religious people have thin skins -- you'll scare them away!"

I know some very intelligent "believers."  One of my college roommates went on to become a high-profile Rabbi, and I know he'd love this discussion.

So, let me offer a strawman argument.   Religion can't be supported by logic, but it can be supported by emotion.   Many people downgrade emotion to second-rate status, but I think it can be argued that emotion is just as important as logic.   It could be argued that atheists lack a solid emotional framework and emotional support system.   For example, what does Secular Humanism offer in times of grief and mourning?