Where Will Our Recycles Go?

[Rianne]

We drill deep and frack for oil. What would happen if we buried very deep our garbage? Drill holes for methane release. The trash is releasing methane regardless. Would the trash be decomposed naturally? There are worms and bugs that decompose just about everything. Plastic included (thus my previous post about worms that decompose plastic). I don't mean creating a park over garbage, I mean drilling deep and covering with rock/soil, add decomposing bugs, fungus.

 

[Jerry1]

Our county has several “Recycling Centers” run by Waste Management (WM) which are free to use to residents and home/property owners. This was part of a 40 year deal that allowed WM to locate a landfill in the county. These centers accept more than typical recyclables. There are separate dumpsters for 1) yard waste/brush/logs, 2) construction materials/bulk items, 3) metals, 4) tires, 5) household waste, 6) CFC containing appliances and a tank for 7) waste oil. Past this area are the covered roll-offs for traditional recyclables which are comingled - paper, cardboard, 1&2 plastic bottles, aluminum cans, and metal cans. Despite signs stating no glass or plastic bags, people throw them in anyway. Many people also don’t break down cardboard as requested. Glass was discontinued in January as there is no market.

Each recycling center lists the past months recycling rate on a sign when you drive in. Goal stated is 40%, but actuals over past year have been between 5-15%. That is a sad reflection on our society. I know my recycleables are at least double my household waste. Another sad point is that oftentimes the yard waste gets contaminated by someone tossing in a soda can or bag of garbage. When that happens the whole dumpster gets land filled rather than being turned into mulch.

County makes it easy and free but many folks just don’t seem to care to make the effort to use the facility correctly.

This is my biggest gripe with recycling. People just don’t care. Personally, I think the whole idea went bust in my area when they went to the large unsourced containers. I may be wrong, but I think there is a market for some recyclables if done properly. Things like cardboard and paper products are high on the list along with the metals. My guess is that glass is lower on the list, but the main problem with glass is that it breaks and contaminates other things. Plastics my have some value, but they need to be clean and sorted. However, since most people will not take the time to properly sort and clean things, recycling is doomed from the start. Seriously, do you really think that greasy pizza box is recyclable?

The other thing we need to look into is better alternatives to plastics. I think Chik-fil-A is one of the better fast food alternatives, but their salad comes in a very heavy duty plastic bowl with an equally heavy duty lid. Great if you get it to go, but I only sit in and eat and it’s way overkill for dining in. Just one example but it starts at the beginning of the process not at the end.

 

[mickeyd]

I am pretty sure that our recycling stuff gets dumped along with our garbage so I just consider it a second weekly trash pick up. I have never thought that recycling trash was worth the effort.

 

[indiajust]

I looked up the Westchester facility for Wheelabrator where I was a co-op in the 80's. The plant has been modified from Electrostatic precipitators to bag houses. They added lime and carbon injection to reduce mercury and lead in the exhaust. And they no longer use the ash for roads or caps. Instead, the ash is treated at a mono fill dump, (power plant ash only) for additional non-ferrous metal recycling of copper aluminium and lead.

They also improved the plant economic efficiency by sellng the low temperature steam as a hot water source for a co-located washing/cleaning service.

 

[indiajust]

After a hurricane in Raleigh, NC, tree debris was burned continuously for months by the cities to clean up the mess. Private equity hired some haulers to remove an immense quantity in advance of the burn and set up a shredding station. Those bags of bark and mulch at home depot and lowes... Yup, that's where it came from. I was curious how many years of mulch were created and shipped out of the hurricane Fran.

 

[indiajust]

Raleigh also performs yard waste composting. It used to be free for residents, but they could not give it away fast enough, so they started selling it commercially. They make quite a few shekels on the trade.

I always did my own shredding and composting since I was too lazy to remove the materials and I desperately needed the soil for flower beds. But I was definitely in the minority.

 

[Midpack]

Not joking. Recycling has been a very expensive virtue signal, amounting to segregated collection, landfills and trash export. We have filled the oceans and landfills using an expensive inefficient collection system of diesel fuel and trucks.

In a choice between water pollution, ocean pollution, vs the incremental problems of garbage to energy power plants to coal... I prefer to avoid the impossible problem of ocean clean up in favor of standard air pollution controls on a power plant.

Had we burned the plastic instead of "recycling", the oceans would be clean and the landfills empty or non-existent.

Except most of what finds its way into the ocean never made it to a landfill or was not contained after it arrived and therefore wouldn't have been burned. Your solution would reduce what ends up in landfills, and generate more pollution for power generation (your original proposal), but it would do little about what ends up in the oceans - without massive changes in collection and peoples habits.

While I share your concern re: trash in our oceans, most of it comes from:

• Plastic waste that's been transported to landfills, and a portion which blows away ending up in rivers and oceans.
• Litter that's not collected, or tossed on our streets that finds it's way to a waterway.
• Littering at or near beaches and all other coastal areas that simply blows into the ocean. All the light stuff, like single use plastic bags & bottles, styrofoam, cig butts etc. blows around with ease.
• Cotton, facewipes and sanitary products that are flushed - some end up in waterways.
• Microbeads in all sorts of personal care products and cosmetics, that consumers are unaware of, that are washed down the drain.
• Industrial plastic waste that's not contained.
• Trash dumped at sea, but 80% of what's in the ocean was land based.

And finally, not that the US couldn't easily do much better with REDUCE and REUSE instead of WISH-CYCLING, the problem is FAR larger...

https://www.greenpeace.org/new-zealand/story/how-does-plastic-end-up-in-the-ocean/

 

[HFWR]

^ In short, nearly everything eventually ends up in the water...

 

[Jerry1]

^ In short, nearly everything eventually ends up in the water...

Even when you burn it, it only starts as air pollution. Ultimately, it ends up in the water too - not just the solid waste.

 

[Chuckanut]

It wasn’t that long ago that my mother brought reusable jugs to an drinking water machine at her grocery store. The tap water In her area was not very good.

 

[JoeWras]

^ In short, nearly everything eventually ends up in the water...

I may get some hate for this, but it is my belief that PICKUP TRUCKS are the source of all evil in today's trashy world. At least in the USA.

Time and time again I see trash fly out of pickup trucks from unsecured snacks, breakfast and lunch debris. A glass coke bottle wouldn't fly out. Plastic bottles can and do. Along the side of the road they go, then down to the ditch, and eventually our waterways...

 

[indiajust]

Hmm... Hard not to see Red China as not so green. I was unaware the disparity was so wide. I see this as a good argument to stop shipping waste overseas, since they have a demonstrated inability to process it responsibly. Again, I would rather generate power and feedstock metals here than risk pollution liabilities elsewhere.

I am unable to determine the difference between incinerator and waste-to-energy power. My experience is with the latter, which are built with the same emission controls as other power plants. I associate incinerator with open burn and a smoke stack, no controls or management of any kind. Never seen one in operation (plenty of abandoned ones across VT and NH). I think they were shut down in the 60's and 70's.

I admire the success of electronics collection and reprocessing at Best Buy. Most anything electrical is accepted.
The automotive sector is approaching closed loop. Between LKQ and Copart for reuse to Arjes and Nucor for metals.

If you could de-polymerize plastics on an industrial basis it would close the loop for the oil based supply chain, similar to metals. Until then, a niche for new product design using recycled materials might be the only option other than WtE power plants.

I am uncertain how to convince life forms that more is not better. In the spirit of Mare Kondo, toss everything that does not spark joy. As a concept, better stuff sells where less stuff does not. There will be an end of the line, filled with unwanted things. Burn the past to charge EV batteries of the future.

 

[Rianne]

I may get some hate for this, but it is my belief that PICKUP TRUCKS are the source of all evil in today's trashy world. At least in the USA.

Time and time again I see trash fly out of pickup trucks from unsecured snacks, breakfast and lunch debris. A glass coke bottle wouldn't fly out. Plastic bottles can and do. Along the side of the road they go, then down to the ditch, and eventually our waterways...

Pick up trucks are one way. When we lived in Michigan in this beautiful natural setting, this UPS guy ahead of me threw out his burger king bag. It burst and the trash inside flew all over. I chased him down and would not budge until he went back and picked it all up. Also, in that neighborhood, an elderly couple would walk up and down the street picking up trash. I stopped and thanked them. This road was winding with small lakes and a family of wild turkeys, deer, bunch of wildlife.

 

[ERD50]

Why not just have beer trucks with tappers on the side make regular neighborhood rounds. Bring your own one, three or five gallon bucket.


Remember back when you could buy a bucket of beer at your local pub? No? Well me neither but I saw it in a movie once.

But I do remember my grandfather telling me it was his job to fetch a pail of beer for his father to have with dinner each night.

Growlers: The Original PAIL Ales - All About Beer

"The father or grandfather of the household would usually send the kid down to fetch a fresh pail of beer."

-ERD50