Which car ?

[73ss454]

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa Huh? Have bought three cars new in the last 7 years in Fla and never had a problem, with prices being more or less competitive based on my homework. Fees are stiff, but that is typical for no-income-tax states, at least in Az and Fl. Did I miss something? I did pay cash, so if it is related to financing it was irrelevant to me.

Rich, the problem is that all the dealers have the same inflated prices on their window stickers so there's no way to shop without it unless you go out of state. I have a friend who works in a Toyota store in NJ and wanted to get me the Camry for invoice which was $22700 for the model I wanted which was the SE version of the Camry. I would have bought it from him if I didn't find the damaged one with 100 miles on it. I just came home from picking it up at the body shop and it came out great. My total cost was $19300 with the body work and for a new one down here they wanted 24 to 25K but I would of had to get the TOYOGUARD. (heh) I'll just have to live without it.

Very hard for the consumer to shop when all the dealers are playing the same game.

[FIREd]

When I was car shopping in January, I looked at the Toyota Camry and the Hyundai Sonata. I liked Toyota for 2 main reasons: 1) They had a long term reputation for quality products and 2) their cars held their value better than others (although it may not be the case anymore). I like Hyundai for 2 reasons: 1) They offered more bang for the buck and 2) they were built locally. In the end, Toyota's track record spoke for itself. When I start seeing a lot of 10 year old Hyundais on the roads, I may change my mind.

We actually bought 2 new cars this year. Our car shopping experience was great. We knew exactly what we wanted and we had the car priced in by USAA Car Buying Services before even hitting the showrooms (price was all-inclusive except typical sales taxes and title fees). Since we paid cash, we didn't have to deal with the finance guy. It took only 2-3 hours between our walking onto the lot and our driving off in our brand new car. Very little haggling (just a tad for the trade-in, for fun), no hassle, no pushy salesman.

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by 73ss454 Very hard for the consumer to shop when all the dealers are playing the same game.

Toyota dealers in the US seem particularly adept at boosting margins with "profit packages".

I shopped for a new Toyota here in Texas a few years ago and ran into something called "Gulf States Toyota Distributors (GST)". This company apparently owns the franchise rights to every new Toyota vehicle sold in Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Texas. Every dealer I talked to had GST add-on packages of $1,000-2,000 on every vehicle. Here is an example of the two most common, found on every new Camry I looked at:

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Vehicle Shield Package $349 Lusterizing Sealant Sound Shield Sealant Cleaner Rental Car Assistance The Extra Mile Option Package D $1,313 Custom Tape Stripe Stainless Steel Exhaust Tip First Aid Kit Fabric Guard Spare Tire Lock Door Sill Enhancements Molded Dash Applique Carpet Floor Mats (4 Pc) Glass Break Sensor Roadside Assistance (3 Yrs/36,000 Miles The Extra Mile Service Rewards Program (5 Yrs/60,000 Miles)

Rip-off city. None would sell a car without it, telling me it was "added at the port" and they were powerless to remove it.

I did not buy a new Toyota and never will - at least not while they play these games.

[REWahoo]

Adding to my previous post, it appears the GST business model is also followed by Southeast Toyota Distributors (SET) in the states of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, North Carolina & South Carolina.

I found this interesting comment on a Toyota Tundra discussion board:

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I've been doing some interesting reading on Gulf States Toyota (GST) and Southeast Toyota Distributors (SET), the only two Toyota distributors that are not wholly owned subsidiaries of Toyota Motor Sales, USA (TMS). This arrangement exists because of an investment that certain individuals made to establilsh dealerships throughout the Southeast and Southwest when Toyota was not established in the U.S. Decades (and billions of dollars) later, customers in these two regions are left with a system which involves a middleman that adds "port installed options" (PIO) that are of questionable value, often not Toyota accessories, and are often more mandatory than optional. While dealers may have some latitude about preferencing trucks without some of these PIOs, it certainly isn't going to happen very easily with very new models. There are some positive inventory management and other benefits to these distribution systems, however, they mostly relate to convenience of purchase rather than reducing costs.

Might be worth the price of a ticket to fly out of the South to buy a new Toyota...

[unallowable]

Just bought a 2009 Ford Flex with less that 20k miles on it. Crossed the Florida line to Thomasville, Ga to get a great deal. Realize not much interest on this forum in American cars but I love this car. A dream to drive and a good cross between SUV and sedan - I recommend a test drive.

[73ss454]

REW, yep, That's the deal. I didn't know they had it in other states. This is the scam of all scams. From what I can see the person who set up this deal years ago must have an ironclad contract to do this. I also would never buy a car with this scam added on. Just travel a bit and you can use the savings for a great vacation.

If I didn't find this Camry with 100 miles on it I would have gotten one from my buddy in NJ.

I don't know if others like Honda and Nissan have the same scam in these states.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

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Originally Posted by REWahoo Might be worth the price of a ticket to fly out of the South to buy a new Toyota...

I was thinking about that -- between the web and ability to travel (time) that may be the best way to go if you know what you want. All my dealers had an internet sales person who did only that.

This strategy saved me thousands of dollars when I bought my RV (in Ohio) and will probably be worth a try next time I buy a car.

[73ss454]

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Originally Posted by unallowable Just bought a 2009 Ford Flex with less that 20k miles on it. Crossed the Florida line to Thomasville, Ga to get a great deal. Realize not much interest on this forum in American cars but I love this car. A dream to drive and a good cross between SUV and sedan - I recommend a test drive.

A used Ford is one of the best deals on the planet. They take such a huge hit in the first 2 or 3 years that you can buy one for 50 cents on the dollar.

[REWahoo]

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Originally Posted by 73ss454 I don't know if others like Honda and Nissan have the same scam in these states.

I don't think so. I bought a new Honda in 2008 and didn't have any problems with dealer/cartel add-ons.

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Originally Posted by 73ss454 A used Ford is one of the best deals on the planet. They take such a huge hit in the first 2 or 3 years that you can buy one for 50 cents on the dollar.

This from a guy who just bought a new slightly bruised Toyota...

[73ss454]

Hey, I drove a Ford for a long time. Keeping the 98 Taurus for 7 years and losing only $350 is good, no?

[FinanceDude]

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Originally Posted by ikonomore That's a good choice also the Rav4. One thing people aren't mentioning about Hyundai's is their resale value. It's horrible. This still matters if you keep a car forever because it could get stolen, totaled out, etc.. and the insurance company would give you nothing for it.

Used domestic cars don't have very good resale either. Hyundai's resale is no worse now than a domestic car, actually their newer models are better than a domestic car, but not as good as Honda or Toyo..........

[BigNick]

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Originally Posted by ikonomore One thing people aren't mentioning about Hyundai's is their resale value. It's horrible. This still matters if you keep a car forever because it could get stolen, totaled out, etc.. and the insurance company would give you nothing for it.

I worried about that a bit when I bought mine, but then I found that the people who price second-hand cars for a living were forecasting better a residual value than the market average after 2, 3, and 4 years for my new iX35/Tucson, at least in Europe. YMMV, but the lease rates might tell you what Hyundai themselves think of the residuals.

I previously last drove a Hyundai (a loaner saloon) 12 or so years ago, and it was a total clunker. They really have come a long way - the European design and (in my case; US Hyundais are still made in Korea, I think) manufacture are noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Moemg if I have any sanity left I'll check out the Subrau's . My SO's son had a Subrau that lasted forever .

I tested the Forester and loved it, but it was a little too 4x4 for me. If I was paying US prices for gas, and had a couple of thou more in the budget for the vehicle, I'd be tempted by the Outlook with the 3.6-litre engine. It's a proper 4x4 but without the "SUV angst" which affects us Europeans, even those of us who do go off-road occasionally.

[Moemg]

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Originally Posted by unallowable Just bought a 2009 Ford Flex with less that 20k miles on it. Crossed the Florida line to Thomasville, Ga to get a great deal. Realize not much interest on this forum in American cars but I love this car. A dream to drive and a good cross between SUV and sedan - I recommend a test drive.

My daughter has a Ford Freestyle and I love the car . It's so luxurious . Maybe I need to check Ford out . I have not driven an American car in a long time . I did have a Camaro in the late 60's that lasted forever .

[FIREd]

We drove Fords for a while too.

Taurus 1989. My first car. And the biggest POS ever. Bought it used in 1997 and disposed of it in 1998 (couldn't pass the state inspection). It needed a new engine and transmission after only 100K miles. The ride was horrible.

Probe 1990. Not a bad car. Bought used in 1999. Required very few repairs, but it had a fairly low mileage for a car that age. It was totaled in an accident in 2002.

Tempo 1989. Again not bad. DW bought it new in 1989. I inherited it in 1999. We traded it in in 2001. Lots of minor annoyances near the end but otherwise reliable car and fairly cheap to maintain. Survived a fire. Red interior with black exterior paint. Terrible manual transmission (the car would stall if I tried to downshift).

I also drove a 1985 VW Golf until it was 14 years old (great car in general, though the dashboard lights and A/C did not work anymore) and a 2001 VW Jetta which I kept for 9 years but cost me an arm and a leg to maintain. Until recently DW drove a 1997 Mazda Miata. That car was a dream maintenance-wise. Hence our decision to go all-Japanese.

[Meadbh]

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Originally Posted by cj I'm a little late to this party, but we just bought a CRV in June, and I LOVE it. Of course, I drove an Accord for 13 years, and also have a 3 year old Civic. You just can't beat Honda quality IMO. We also considered a Subaru Forrester - love the looks and they have really great ratings - but decided to stick with Honda.

I am a big Honda fan and this thread is making me think I need to put the CRV on my list for a test drive!

[unallowable]

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Originally Posted by Moemg My daughter has a Ford Freestyle and I love the car . It's so luxurious . Maybe I need to check Ford out . I have not driven an American car in a long time . I did have a Camaro in the late 60's that lasted forever .

When I travel for work, I take the opportunity to rent foreign cars as a test drive. Most just don't have a substantial enough "feel" to suit me. I have had 3 Mustangs starting with my first car in 1969 and 3 Thunderbirds and we have had two Ford pickups. My 1999 Ford Expedition has 140K miles and still looks and runs great. The dealer where I bought the Flex only wanted to give $3k for a trade in - it has more value than that for me to use to haul rental property stuff and dogs. It also handles my pop-up very nicely.
The reason I wanted to buy a new car now is to accelerate payments over the next 20 months when I will RE. The plan was to pay cash at that time but the new car bug was biting now. I do encourage you to check out the Flex, an unusual looking car but very luxurious.

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by FIREdreamer We drove Fords for a while too. Taurus 1989. My first car. And the biggest POS ever. Bought it used in 1997 and disposed of it in 1998 (couldn't pass the state inspection). It needed a new engine and transmission after only 100K miles. The ride was horrible. Probe 1990. Not a bad car. Bought used in 1999. Required very few repairs, but it had a fairly low mileage for a car that age. It was totaled in an accident in 2002. Tempo 1989. Again not bad. DW bought it new in 1989. I inherited it in 1999. We traded it in in 2001. Lots of minor annoyances near the end but otherwise reliable car and fairly cheap to maintain. Survived a fire. Red interior with black exterior paint. Terrible manual transmission (the car would stall if I tried to downshift). I also drove a 1985 VW Golf until it was 14 years old (great car in general, though the dashboard lights and A/C did not work anymore) and a 2001 VW Jetta which I kept for 9 years but cost me an arm and a leg to maintain. Until recently DW drove a 1997 Mazda Miata. That car was a dream maintenance-wise. Hence our decision to go all-Japanese.

I worked for a mega that had a fleet of cars... they owned about 30 or so Tauruses.... all, repeat.... all had to have a new transmission... some as early as 75K miles... I think the longest last just over 100K... POS...

I said I would not buy another Ford after my 85 Cougar... Ford hid the fact there was a problem with the control module causing the car to stall... and I spent lots of my own money trying to get it fixed... BUT, I did by my BILs 04 Explorer after he died... and then had to spend $1700 to get the rear end replaced after 45K miles because it rusted and the bearings were making a very loud noise...

My 95 Monte Carlo seemed to be pretty good, but it seems I was more lucky than it having a good engine... but I did have to pay for some items that should not go bad such as the heater core in the car...

On my 04 Acura... only oil changes and a 30K checkup... (except for a cracked windshield which is not something in the design of the car and my wife hitting it )...

[FinanceDude]

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Originally Posted by unallowable When I travel for work, I take the opportunity to rent foreign cars as a test drive. Most just don't have a substantial enough "feel" to suit me. I have had 3 Mustangs starting with my first car in 1969 and 3 Thunderbirds and we have had two Ford pickups. My 1999 Ford Expedition has 140K miles and still looks and runs great. The dealer where I bought the Flex only wanted to give $3k for a trade in - it has more value than that for me to use to haul rental property stuff and dogs. It also handles my pop-up very nicely. The reason I wanted to buy a new car now is to accelerate payments over the next 20 months when I will RE. The plan was to pay cash at that time but the new car bug was biting now. I do encourage you to check out the Flex, an unusual looking car but very luxurious.

If Moemg wants a smaller car, a Flex would seem huge to her...........

[Meadbh]

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa In 2010 a nice lady from Sarasota with an aging car was seen careening off the side rails with her eyes shut.

[bbbamI]

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Originally Posted by d i'm surprised that no one has questioned why you'd want to get a new car when your current one is only 11yrs, and only 100k miles

My 2006 Acura had 26.5k miles on it when I bought it a little over two years ago. It now has 28.5k miles...

If I wait until it has 100k miles on it, I'd be 124 years old.

Moe...I love Hondas and have always had good luck with them.