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Who says public education isn't relevant?
Old 06-25-2007, 10:08 AM   #1
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Who says public education isn't relevant?

The US Supreme court ruled 6-3 that basically students do not have free speech.

I lived in Juneau when this case occurred, and it took some serious overlooking of the facts for them to reach this decision.

The way CNN is playing it, the student unfurled a "bong hits for Jesus" banner at a "school sponsored" event.

Problem is 1) the "school sponsored event" was a public parading of the olympic torch for which students were let out of class 2) the student did not attend school that day, and showed up at the event on his own and 3) subsequently the school district harassed him including doing things like impounding his vehicle for parking on "school property" after being suspended. The "school property" he parked on was to the open-to-the-public swimming pool parking lot.

IMO, he was truant, but not at a "school-sponsored event" since he was never under the auspices of the school that day.

The problem with the court's interpretation is that the school district can essentially declare anything a "school-sponsored event" (school-board meeting?) and squelch criticism from any student.

The district was represented gratis by none other than Ken Star.

Another nail in the coffin of free speech. Well, at least the schools are teaching the skills we need in today's world--how to be censored little sheep.
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Justices put new limit on student speech
Old 06-25-2007, 10:09 AM   #2
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Justices put new limit on student speech



Justices put new limit on student speech - Yahoo! News

Quote:
WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court tightened limits on student speech Monday, ruling against a high school student and his 14-foot-long "Bong Hits 4 Jesus" banner.



Edit: I see Bosco beat me to the punch...
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:21 AM   #3
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Next they will declare him an enemy-combatant, so he won't have rights to legal counsel, and may be held indefinitely.

Like this guy.
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:29 AM   #4
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I am reminded of what grandpa used to say...."children should be seen but not heard"....
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:40 PM   #5
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Sophmoric stunt; he should have gotten school detention just for doing a stupid thing and that should have been the end of it.
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:56 PM   #6
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Obituary: The Death of Shame
Shame was finally laid to rest today, January 15, 2003.
Its health had been deteriorating for quite some time. In a moving eulogy, Glenn Beck praised Shame for having served society as an "internal guide post" and "an unspoken deterrent against aberrant behavior".
Shame is survived (for the time being) by Conscience, Decency, Civility, Honor, Principle, and Tact -- all of which have been deeply disheartened by Shame's passing.
When pressed for comment, only Decency was able to bring itself to words: "I just don't know how we'll be able to carry on [sniff] without our dear friend, Shame -- of blessed memory. It was hard enough when there were just the seven of us, but [sniff] Shame was our leader! It was ONLY through Shame that we ever got invited to [sniff] parties, or business meetings, or political functions. Now, we'll never get to go anywhere ever again [sniff]!"

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What is considered as a shameful act varies from society to society - it is taught by the society to the individual member of that society.
The death of shame implies that the individual is not being taught and lacks guidance.

There was a great article about it in Time or Newsweek but I can not find it.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:40 PM   #7
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Is this a serious infringement of free speech? The Supremes just affirmed the school's right to limit free speech at school. Junior can say what he wants at home, on a streetcorner, in a letter to the editor, etc.

This isn't much different than employers setting limits on what you can say at work. The little jerk needs to get used to some common sense limits, better now than later. Too bad he got all this publicity. I'm sure another civil $uit (in addition to his dad's $200K windfall) was in the wings.
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Old 06-25-2007, 01:47 PM   #8
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I think the poster is hilarious...

However, it does show a lack of good judgement...

And, frankly, it's a horrible waste of the taxpayer's money, and of the time of the highest court in the land. Chalk it up to "oops", then go take a bong hit for Jesus...
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dex View Post
Sophmoric stunt; he should have gotten school detention just for doing a stupid thing and that should have been the end of it.
IMO, the only thing he did against school policy was skipping school. He showed up on a public street, not on school property, not having checked in at school for the day, and waved a banner. For this he was suspended. Just because the school declared the parade a "school function" and he "attended" they therefore claim some sort of "jurisdiction." Using this logic, they could curtail any free speech of any enrollee just by declaring the setting a "school function."

Last time I checked, school is not the army. If a student is not at school, or if it is after hours, the school does not control a student's life. There are some exceptions relating to eligibility to participate in extracurricular sports.

What are the limits of school authority? And precisely what about the school setting precludes free speech if one is not disrupting a classroom?

Many folks in Juneau are rightfully angry that their tax dollars were wasted in this manner, never mind the bill of rights issues.
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Old 06-25-2007, 03:47 PM   #10
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I also find this a peculiar decision. He was not attending school at the time. His property was seized and he was "punished" (by being suspended from school -- to do bong hits?). All this the SC says is "reasonable".
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Old 06-25-2007, 05:34 PM   #11
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i'm surprised there were so many comments on drugs. when i read the slogan--which seemed to be just a contemporized take on "nuke a gay whale for jesus"--drugs would have been about the last thing to come to my mind. to me it simply shows how ludicrous it is that just about anything in life can be justified in the name of jesus or whatever god have you.

to say this had anything to do with drugs would be like saying the slogan of the past had anything to do with nuking whales.

in any case, i can't imagine this having become a freedom of speech incident when i was in highschool because we simply would have rioted.
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:45 PM   #12
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I know it's just a joke, but if it weren't what would it mean?



If it were above a bong, it would mean that you should come over an take a hit to support Jesus (like "Honk if you love Jesus").

But since there's no bong there, it means... it just doesn't mean anything, and it was obviously just putting together a bunch of funny words.

We sure live in an uptight, uncool country.
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Old 06-25-2007, 07:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl View Post
We sure live in an uptight, uncool country.
The hell heck you say...
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Old 06-25-2007, 08:02 PM   #14
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I know it's just a joke, but if it weren't what would it mean?



That they're members of the Ethiopian Zion Coptic Church?
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Old 06-25-2007, 09:19 PM   #15
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Next they will declare him an enemy-combatant, so he won't have rights to legal counsel, and may be held indefinitely.

Like this guy.
Don't worry about these constitutional infringements, they only apply to "terrorists". Right.
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:01 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
"nuke a gay whale for jesus"
c'mon, you left out a couple of important groups that need offending: I believe the "full version" is

"nuke the unborn gay baby whales for Jesus"

I attended the graduation ceremony where the "bong hits" kid got his diploma, since my son was in the same class. There was palpable excitement when the principal handed him the diploma--everyone expected some sort of a stunt.

He graciously accepted his diploma. Principal Morse graciously presented it to him. Everyone uncharacteristically behaved like adults!
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Old 06-26-2007, 10:12 AM   #17
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I merged the two ongoing threads on this topic.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:45 PM   #18
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yikes, someone contemporized the gay whale? is there no respect for tradition?
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:58 PM   #19
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Dang, looks like the jack-booted school officials in Canada are clamping down on freedom of expression within the hallowed grounds of academia. This kid didn't even unfurl a banner--it sounds like he he just wrote a paper and then was "threatened with police action."

Student suspended after voicing marijuana opinion

Well, at least it hasn't percolated up to the courts--yet.
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Old 06-27-2007, 02:03 PM   #20
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The Court's ruling is really a very narrow one. The key point is the promoting of drug use.

If for example, the sign said "Legalize marijuana for Jesus" it would have been projected speech because it is promoting a legal position.

Not every slope is a slippery one.

"The message on Frederick's banner is cryptic," Chief Justice John Roberts said. But the school principal who suspended him "thought the banner would be interpreted by those viewing it as promoting illegal drug use, and that interpretation is plainly a reasonable one," Roberts said in the majority opinion.
In a concurrence, Justices Samuel Alito and Anthony Kennedy said the court's opinion "goes no further" than speech interpreted as dealing with illegal drug use.
"It provides no support" for any restriction that goes to political or social issues, they said.
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