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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-16-2007, 06:24 PM   #41
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

I caught part of Frontline last night on PBS.

Pssst - Contractors/private databases. Saves buckets of residual costs - on Civil Service, Pensions, rules AND Lawyers love the arms length relationship.

Shades of the Cold War Days.

for them and then- non cola pension, Psst - Space Program, contract labor for me.
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-16-2007, 08:24 PM   #42
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Historically, I do not see this being the case :

Posted by: ladelfina

"It's about deciding if the US is going to be a country run according to the rule of law.. or not... "

Our country, while as wonderful and prosperous as it is, is not squeaky clean in its political affairs (rules only apply when deemed necessary) - and I will not pretend it is. Nor will I turn my back on the goodness - only to be miserable and constantly complaining about the filthiness. I can hear that on the news.


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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-16-2007, 09:10 PM   #43
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Boy, "they" obviously have tons of files on everybody. If so:
- Where's the office with the millions of people needed to listen to it all, analyze it, and build a complete picture of the activities of all the innocent Americans? Maybe this has been outsourced to India?
- Where are the innocent Americans who have materially suffered from the abuse of this power? Where's the powerful person who had the calls to his mistress made public by the folks flying the black helicopters? Surely there's a politician whose calls were used against him by the great imperial power.

There definitely have been abuses by the intelligence community in the past (that's what the Church Commission was all about. It is also why career inteligence professionals--civilian and military--have consistently been the most reluctant to get involved with anything "close to the line." It's usually politicians who cause the trouble). We need to be constantly vigilant to avoid these abuses again (as well as abuses by civilian law enforcement, which is a largely separate animal). Folks like Ladelfina do an important service by keeping vigil for the potential of abuse. But, like everything else, balance is required. Right now I don't see any signs that abuses are really happening to innocent Americans. On the other hand, I see enough evidence of whackos on the loose that I'm convinced nobody is really doing any wide scale monitoring. If they were, I'd think we wouldn't have to count on a guy working at "Video Hut" to learn about the activities of Muslim illegal alliens planning to attack Ft Dix.
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 10:25 AM   #44
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Don't know why the nationality-bashing is appropriate... Why demean me just because I choose to focus my efforts on more important issues? You probably don't know how many lives I have helped, changed, or saved or what good I have done.
my point was that your argument seems to boil down to "it won't happen to me so I don't care. Facts be damned." Sound familiar?

You are probably right, nationality-bashing is not appropriate. I meant "good German" in the generally accepted context of someone who allows injustices to happen to others based on the assumption that it can't happen to them and will "play by the rules" even when the rules were wrong which seemed to me to be what you were saying. But I probably should have found a different way to make my point. Please accept my apology.

For the record, I am of 100% German descent, and German was the first language of both my parents. So if implying that you were German is demeaning, then I have also demeaned myself.

Let's also remember that "German bashing" is still acceptable, at least in a broader, non-personal sense. They were still running Hogan's Heroes when Bill Dana was long gone. Would "Springtime for Hitler" have been tolerated for any other nationality?

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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 12:03 PM   #45
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Help, please help - some black SUV's just showed up and men with suits are circling my office building... I keep hearing them mumbling something about "gitmo, gitmo" and I can hear the faint thump-thump of a helicopter in the distance. Oh no, here they com---dgfjhlad;ge//'''
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 04:17 PM   #46
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

justin,
we they have been tailing and wire tapping you since those wild days on Avent Ferry Road.

Remember seeing these guys out front? Thought they were ordinary cops didn't you?

Guess again, NSA on the left and CIA on the right. Book em, Dan O.



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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 04:55 PM   #47
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
justin,
we they have been tailing and wire tapping you since those wild days on Avent Ferry Road.

Remember seeing these guys out front? Thought they were ordinary cops didn't you?

Guess again, NSA on the left and CIA on the right. Book em, Dan O.
Ooh, ooh...

Trivia: Al Lewis was also on Car 54, later to be Grandpa on The Munsters...
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 05:21 PM   #48
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
justin,
we they have been tailing and wire tapping you since those wild days on Avent Ferry Road.

Remember seeing these guys out front? Thought they were ordinary cops didn't you?

Guess again, NSA on the left and CIA on the right. Book em, Dan O.
Dang - I better watch out.

I just got back from near your old stomping grounds - had to take a trip to Hope Mills and Fayetteville to straighten ( ) some folks out. I stopped by Fort Bragg and told a couple of Special Ops guys that you've been looking at dirty pictures on the internet.

Better watch out for black SUV's and slow, low-flying helicopters the next few days... Let me know how the guantanamo bay area of cuba is this time of year.
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 05:59 PM   #49
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

justin,
my last stay wasn't bad. The curried goat at Gitmo Gourmet was fab.

Here in SF, the NSA uses seagulls, I'm on the 41st floor so they had to resort to camera surveillance with gull-pod technology. Those basserds.

BTW, I was in Cary about 6 months ago to get gas on the way to RDU and so I hit Western and noticed a sign announcing NC State University. When did that happen?

Also BTW, the guys in the Black SUV's might be pimps so look to see if the drivers are wearing these, if so you're in big trouble boy, NSA, book em.

HFWR,
I'd like to claim I'm too young to have watched those shows but alas, I'm older than homo erectus. Ooops, can I say that here?

I just Googled and he looked the same on both shows. Funny.
http://www.specialopswatch.com/

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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 07:01 PM   #50
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
BTW, I was in Cary about 6 months ago to get gas on the way to RDU and so I hit Western and noticed a sign announcing NC State University. When did that happen?
Probably 2000 or 2001? If you mean that big massive sign on western right as you get to campus - I think they call it a "gateway" (you're supposed to feel like you are entering campus!).

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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 07:01 PM   #51
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

I don't know how much watching goes on now. I do know that the FBI used to spend too much time watching people that they shouldn't have bothered to watch.

The last page of my FBI filed, when it was closed in 1974:



(It looks like most of the rest of my file--anything interesting is blacked out. Probably uninteresting stuff too. )
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 07:14 PM   #52
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
The last page of my FBI filed, when it was closed in 1974:
And people wonder what we do all day... file FOIA requests on ourselves!
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 07:22 PM   #53
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
And people wonder what we do all day... file FOIA requests on ourselves!
And, some believe--if there wasn't a file on you before, there will be after you file the FOIA request.
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 07:53 PM   #54
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Hell - I keep a file on myself - just in case those bureaucratic dorks lose mine.

I may be old but I'm not dead - trust no one.

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh - 8)

BTW - my SUV is not black - but I got's cool shades 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-17-2007, 10:31 PM   #55
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin
Dang - I better watch out.
You better not cry... :P

"Santa Claus wears a red suit, he's a Communist;
has a beard and long hair, must be a pacifist.
What's in that pipe that he's smoking..."

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Re: Who's watching the watchers?
Old 05-18-2007, 12:29 AM   #56
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Re: Who's watching the watchers?

Egads,
it appears that Gerald Ford's first month in office was spent collecting data on Martha.

He was from Grand Rapids, Michigan and probably disliked Minneapolis (sophisticated, citified) lawyers.

As he stated in his autobiography, "my intent was to root out the liberal, commie, weed smoking, perverts in our society".

I left for Canada the day he took office. Never got past Sacramento but I woulda had not the VW van lost the windshield when Cass Elliot needed a Heimlich maneuver.

But when I saw my FOIA report it contained several thousand pages and each download had a grade of A, A minus, B plus, etc. And marked with "For Eyes Only".

I'm sure they're still after me but a least those cops on Car 54 are all gone now. I can rest until the next set of coppers come after me.

Top of the world, ma.
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