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Old 10-03-2015, 08:34 PM   #61
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Can you say Arizona. I have good information that they used speed cameras in the past. Don't know if they still use them.

Arizona bill banning speed cameras passes committee

Looks like as of Feb they still had them.
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:42 PM   #62
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Up here in the frozen north, we have cameras everywhere. Red lights (as soon as they are installed, yellow lights last < 1 sec). Speed (as soon as installed, they remove lower speed limit signs on highways entering towns and install cameras). Next, WTFK.

It's all revenue. An old friend who now lives on another continent borrowed my truck this summer. 11 weeks later (long after he'd gone home) I get a picture of it in the mail with a request for $130. If I want to defend myself, I have to admit being the driver or name the driver. If I name him, he is expected to spend ~$2K to show up in court. How does one defend that. If he had been handed a ticket, he'd have been here and could have done it.
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Old 10-03-2015, 08:53 PM   #63
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If this happens, it will delay my early retirement.
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Old 10-03-2015, 10:58 PM   #64
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I don't want to live in a future as depicted by THX 1138.
That was one scary ass flick , worse than Soylent Green. THX still gives me the creeps. (Note to self, check amazon video , and get the popcorn ready)
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Old 10-03-2015, 11:06 PM   #65
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An old friend who now lives on another continent borrowed my truck this summer. 11 weeks later (long after he'd gone home) I get a picture of it in the mail with a request for $130. If I want to defend myself, I have to admit being the driver or name the driver. If I name him, he is expected to spend ~$2K to show up in court. How does one defend that. If he had been handed a ticket, he'd have been here and could have done it.
That's a crazy situation. I'd tell the authorities that you loaned him the truck, and that you don't know whether he drove it the whole time or loaned it to someone else (right? I mean, you weren't with him). Then let them try to track him down, send INTERPOL after him, take away his birthday, etc. I'll bet they drop it altogether if you send them a notarized letter or appeared in court.
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Old 10-04-2015, 07:47 AM   #66
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Up here in the frozen north, we have cameras everywhere. Red lights (as soon as they are installed, yellow lights last < 1 sec). Speed (as soon as installed, they remove lower speed limit signs on highways entering towns and install cameras). Next, WTFK.

It's all revenue. An old friend who now lives on another continent borrowed my truck this summer. 11 weeks later (long after he'd gone home) I get a picture of it in the mail with a request for $130. If I want to defend myself, I have to admit being the driver or name the driver. If I name him, he is expected to spend ~$2K to show up in court. How does one defend that. If he had been handed a ticket, he'd have been here and could have done it.
$130 is real cheap, around here , it usually is over $600 with all the misc. BS " Fees" and surcharges. The only saving grace is the judges in LA county refuse to let these be listed on your driving record, so your insurance doesn't also take a hit at renewal

Several cities in CA have tried to add muni code sections for moving violations, and use those instead of state VC sections, so the city get's all the citation revenue, no sharing fines with the state. The state put the kibosh on that .

It's all about revenue, not traffic safety.
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Old 10-04-2015, 07:52 AM   #67
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Why not just use the car's own data logger. It could determine what speed you are driving and know what the speed limit is with GPS information.

Tickets could be mailed out, data sent to the insurance companies, and penalties accessed.

Of course, only people with any money or assets would be required to pay. If you were on public assistance, your fines could be paid by the State, or forgiven. You cannot get blood from a turnip. No one would go to jail for not paying, as that is too expensive for the public.

This could actually work better than an income tax as a means to flatten the wealth curve.
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Old 10-04-2015, 07:59 AM   #68
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Of course, only people with any money or assets would be required to pay.

This could actually work better than an income tax as a means to flatten the wealth curve.

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Old 10-04-2015, 08:03 AM   #69
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Do self-driving cars speed? Will this whole problem go away when there are no drivers?
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:21 AM   #70
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Do self-driving cars speed? Will this whole problem go away when there are no drivers?
When you get a speeding ticket in the mail on your Apple self- driving car, you can use the following in court: " Tech support says it's a known issue ".
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:29 AM   #71
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Do self-driving cars speed? Will this whole problem go away when there are no drivers?
Great question. And would you even need car insurance? If so, who would it cover? The 'driver' or the passenger?

Would a person even need a driver's license? And will they be able to drink alcoholic beverages while a passenger?

In a perfect world (no accidents, no speeding, no tickets), a very large revenue source for insurance companies and States would immediately dry up.

It makes me think that a driver-less car will never happen.

It would be great for dropping a car off at the garage. Just program it and let it go.
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:50 AM   #72
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Why not just use the car's own data logger. It could determine what speed you are driving and know what the speed limit is with GPS information.

Tickets could be mailed out, data sent to the insurance companies, and penalties accessed.

Of course, only people with any money or assets would be required to pay. If you were on public assistance, your fines could be paid by the State, or forgiven. You cannot get blood from a turnip. No one would go to jail for not paying, as that is too expensive for the public.

This could actually work better than an income tax as a means to flatten the wealth curve.
Traffic tickets should not be used for revenue. I am not claiming that they're not at this time in many or most areas. They should be used to determine who is driving safely AND with in the legal limits. Driving is not a right, but a privilege.
you know my new car where I did not get navigation and did not continue the XM radio is able to display ads for places just across the street from where I am. If I provide a data path for it, it will send vehicle telemetry (condition to the dealers, etc). I did not buy navigation with this car. Based on its actions, it has all the smarts it needs to send ticket info. With the forward collision avoidance system, it could tell the color the the lights, etc...

As for the self driving cars, I would expect that they won't speed, but may have special lanes where they can go faster. Hacking the car will likely be illegal and I would expect driving a hacked car will put the owner/driver at full risk (I would expect insurance will likely not cover an accident in a hacked self driving car).
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Old 10-04-2015, 08:56 AM   #73
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Traffic tickets should not be used for revenue.
That is the slippery slope that we have already started to slide down... I think it is inevitable, and too late to stop it.
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Old 10-04-2015, 09:25 AM   #74
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Why not just use the car's own data logger. It could determine what speed you are driving and know what the speed limit is with GPS information.

Tickets could be mailed out, data sent to the insurance companies, and penalties accessed.

Of course, only people with any money or assets would be required to pay. If you were on public assistance, your fines could be paid by the State, or forgiven. You cannot get blood from a turnip. No one would go to jail for not paying, as that is too expensive for the public.

This could actually work better than an income tax as a means to flatten the wealth curve.
Last year, Dallas DP started issuing discipline to officers who drove over 100 MPH for any reason. First of all, that's a stupid rule in general. There are legitimate reasons to drive that fast especially after midnight on a highway when there are very few cars on the road and someone is getting robbed, raped, or another officer is in a fight for his life...but that's a different story. Some officers went to court to fight their discipline and were able to prove that GPS devices on vehicles aren't accurate enough in determining speed for anyone to say with any accuracy that they were driving the speed that the GPS device said they were moving.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:03 AM   #75
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Some officers went to court to fight their discipline and were able to prove that GPS devices on vehicles aren't accurate enough in determining speed for anyone to say with any accuracy that they were driving the speed that the GPS device said they were moving.
True, the car's 'black box' would monitor the speed, as they already do. Not the GPS. The GPS would determine the speed limit for the road. With GPS, it can tell if you are on what road, and what speed of the road is. If necessary, a signal could be sent out from every speed limit sign you pass.

It's actually pretty simple technology that exists today, and will be used in the future to generate revenue, guaranteed. Assuming you have enough money to pay it.

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Arizona bill banning speed cameras passes committee

Looks like as of Feb they still had them.
Once the Feds threaten to stop sending highways funds to the states that ban this technology, it will be un-banned.

Similar to what they did with drinking age laws.

It is not hard to have 100% enforcement, as a means to safety.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:13 AM   #76
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It's all about revenue, not traffic safety.
I like to give politicians the benefit of the doubt and figure it's intended to be sort of about safety (maybe 10%).

Another gripe (valid complaint) about cameras in my neck of the woods is that they mostly catch folks who roll through reds while taking a right turn. This is a low accident causing act; people who slow down enough to check to make sure they are clear before proceeding don't cause anymore accidents than those who stop completely and then proceed to right on red.

The sudden addition of traffic cameras led to some folks who would be driving their usual, safe route, suddenly remember they were on camera, and slam on their breaks, which led to rear end collisions. So the anti-camera crowd now had valid data that cameras sometimes increase collision rates.

The intersections I'm thinking of were recently fixed by installing lights with blinking Amber arrows and adding a special right-turn lane. This greatly improved traffic and reduced accidents much more than those silly cameras ever did. The cameras are still up though, a testament to the ratcheting of the surveillance state on the people.

My point is we can improve safety and traffic flow by better traffic design and saner speed limits (90+ thru Utah, the Kansas Turnpike, and much of Texas is entirely reasonable in good driving conditions) while not infringing on the modicum of privacy we still enjoy as we try to go about our days unmolested.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:35 AM   #77
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Another of a long list of reasons not to use cameras to issue tickets of any kind. Police officers have discretion. Machines do not. A camera would issue a speeding ticket to someone trying to hurry to get his pregnant wife to the hospital. Most officers would give them an escort instead. I could give more than enough other examples, but you get the point.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:47 AM   #78
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Wouldn't it be a slam dunk to set up cameras that measure speed, photograph the license plates, and send a bill? -- Might be if there were things called Voters. I am one of the many voters that get tired of the increasing government oversight of everything we do and consider that in my voting. I wouldn't mind if that workload was focused on things that were really important. Would be highly supportive of more aggressively getting drunk drivers off the road and keeping them off the road for example. Setting up autobilling systems to catch everyday folks going over the speed limit just doesn't come close to being a significant issue. Now if you wanted to limit that to something very excessive (say 15 mph or more over), I might buy into that being very dangerous and worth some effort. Would stop some of the drag racing we see late at night on the local highways. Just one voters opinion.
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Old 10-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #79
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My point is we can improve safety and traffic flow by better traffic design and saner speed limits (90+ thru Utah, the Kansas Turnpike, and much of Texas is entirely reasonable in good driving conditions) while not infringing on the modicum of privacy we still enjoy as we try to go about our days unmolested.
finally reason, change the laws... speed limit where appropriate. May have to consider what is safe not just for your car, but all cars that are permitted on those roads. That said, I had a skoda falicia back in the late '90s going 90 or so mph or so with a 1.285 liter engine (German autobahn).

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Another of a long list of reasons not to use cameras to issue tickets of any kind. Police officers have discretion. Machines do not. A camera would issue a speeding ticket to someone trying to hurry to get his pregnant wife to the hospital. Most officers would give them an escort instead. I could give more than enough other examples, but you get the point.
A camera or other method would not stop them, but provide a ticket where they could explain their specific reason for breaking the law. If we assumed all these excuses were valid and acceptable, what percentage of people breaking the law would you estimate would be covered by valid excuses? Now be honest here. If the owners car could issue tickets for speeding and do it accurately, what percentage would not have a valid reason like pregnant wife? BTW, when I drove my wife to the hospital for our first child, I had to slow down because she complained about every bump in the road.
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Old 10-04-2015, 11:16 AM   #80
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I hate the idea of speed cameras, maybe if they were only used for reckless endangerment (ie those going 25 mph over posted speedlimit). We are already fined all the time and those red light cameras cause nothing but accidents. Sorry but almost no one comes to a complete stop (counting to 5) on right turn EVERY time, but when you have one on your corner its just unfair.. seriously you too would find them ridiculous if they were on your corner tracking your every stop... they are nothing but there for revenue generation. (Yes now I have to sit at every light and count to 5 ... seriously getting REALLY annoying)... especially when you get home at night at 2AM ...sitting on an empty road.. terrified to turn right because god forbid you didn't wait long enough.
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