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Why can't I lighten up on cheaters?
Old 09-17-2012, 12:13 PM   #1
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Why can't I lighten up on cheaters?

It's not golf, but I'll use that as an example. We compete as a team with many other teams, though there are different divisions (say by handicap). There's nothing at stake but bragging rights, and the "administrators" are fellow competitors, all volunteering their services. While it's in good fun, obviously most people don't show up week after week just for fun, they spend time and money to compete so I assume they care about results also.

The results have been compromised by outright cheating in a few cases, and innocent mistakes in more cases. It's not a gray call, everything is in black and white, but many competitors are number phobic and just trust others. Where our team is affected, I politely speak up until the situation is corrected. However, results in other divisions are also in error for similar reasons. Even though it probably shouldn't bother me as our results aren't affected, it eats at me to know others are being rewarded (or not rewarded) incorrectly.

I have pointed out the mistakes to the folks in charge and while they don't disagree with my concerns, they simply choose to do nothing - they go along to get along. They've told me "maybe you should be in charge next year." When I replied 'you wouldn't like that, as I couldn't overlook the errors,' one told me, 'that's probably what we need.' [Then why not just step up now since you know!]

It's tempting for me to point out the errors to teams who are not being rewarded (even though they've earned it), but it's "none of my business" and they're grown ups so I guess I should assume they can look out for themselves. And I've kept silent, but it eats at me.

The season is almost over and there's an annual awards banquet coming up at which the wrong teams will win/place in some cases.

I realize all this is pretty sad, maybe more on my part than others, why the heck does it bother me when others are cheated? I gather most people wouldn't give a hoot...'lighten up Francis.'

Feel free to let me have it, I don't understand myself on this trait...
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:27 PM   #2
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I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same as you... if it makes you feel any better about it

The approach I'd take would be to try and introduce rules to prevent or punish the cheating and/or negligence.

People are driven by incentives... like water they'll take the path of least resistance towards an end goal. When weighing the pros and cons (even subconsciously) about bending the rules they'll often do the easiest, or dishonest, if there is no penalty in the way to dissuade them. Sad, but it's what I've seen more often than not in human nature.

Also could be that some just aren't taking the game as serious, while others hold the game and competition that goes with it to a higher level. Back to your golfing example... if I were out with DW, I would laugh if she kicked her ball closer to the hole. If it were my brother, I'd have a far different reaction.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:34 PM   #3
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Although you said its not golf, perhaps this adage still applies:

The worst day on the golf course is still better than your best day at work.

Oh, I forgot your retired.
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Old 09-17-2012, 12:58 PM   #4
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In my way of thinking, cheating is cheating. If a person would cheat during a sporting competition they would probably cheat in other aspects of their lives and I wouldn't trust them, period. I used to play a lot of golf scrambles when I was still a working stiff and if someone on my team would cheat, I would call them on it and they would back down and usually be embarrassed about it. But it did give insight as to what kind of person they were. Cheats, liars and thieves, I have no use for.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:15 PM   #5
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I just don't understand why you keep participating. I would likely be just as annoyed as you are, in which case I would simply drop out, letting the organizers know my reason.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:32 PM   #6
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I just don't understand why you keep participating. I would likely be just as annoyed as you are, in which case I would simply drop out, letting the organizers know my reason.
+1

Cheating bothers me even when it is only to win bragging rights. It is just the opposite with the few folks I play tennis with, in that we are more likely to calls shots by our opponents "in" that have probably landed "out", however, we play really hard, and "never give up, never surrender".
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:36 PM   #7
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The best games of golf I ever played were the ones where we didn't use the scorecard. My husband and I would pack a small cooler, a few sandwiches, get a cart, and just go out and practice. Great fun!

I was on a league (womens) once. That was quite enough. I was never a long hitter, but always straight as an arrow down the fairway. I saw more cheating going on in the rough from my vantage point in the middle. I usually would "play dumb" about the rules and ask about what I had seen happen. I got a few glares from the veteran players and they quickly corrected their reported number of strokes. PRICELESS!!!

You are justified in how you feel about the "oops I stepped on my ball when I was looking for it". The only thing you have control over is your honesty in play and how you react to others' less than honorable tricks.
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Old 09-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #8
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I will go with the game that I used to play.... bowling...

Most leagues are handicapped... it is usually 80% of the difference or from some number (say 1000 for a team of 5).... there are a number of people who will bowl below what they can the first few weeks so they can get a lower average... which means more handicap.... there is no way to know for sure if someone is doing this...

The score itself is pretty rigid... but, sometimes the foul lights are not on and you can see someone foul... it should be a zero... but most people really does not care...

Another thing that is in the rules is you need a 'team' to start the game, which can be 3 or 4 members (different rules for different leagues) of a 5 member team.... if you do not have a team when bowling starts, you forfeit the first game.... which also means you will lose totals as you have a zero on the first game.... but again, most people will fudge a bit and if someone is running late and gets there within a reasonable time.... they allow them to catch up....


This is an activity to have fun.... sure, you want to beat the tar out of your opponent, but you also want to enjoy yourself... trying to get everything perfect by the rules just takes to much effort....

Now, if this were something different than just having fun... they I would probably speak up....

The reference to golf.... well, there are so many rules that IMO get in the way... I usually just don't follow them that close... IOW, if I grounded the club in the sand trap I am not going to add a stroke.... if I addressed my ball and it moved a tiny bit.... no stroke... the ball behind a tree, it gets a kick over a bit and we go on.... the people I played with did the same... in the end, we had fun and the winner probably was the one who would have won if we all followed the rules... if not, no big deal....
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Old 09-17-2012, 02:12 PM   #9
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I finally quit softball league play, not because of cheating, but because others took it too damned serious for my taste. I look at cheating the same way. It's not that important, and if it is, I'm playing with the wrong crowd.

Also agree that cheating is unacceptable behavior, and I'd take my ball and go home.

That said, my best club is the foot wedge! Then again, I suck at golf, so keeping score is ridiculous...
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:10 PM   #10
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I'd be upset too I think. I'd be fine with casual rules that ignored a few of the finer points of a game, like ignoring lifts in volleyball or foul lines in bowling. But if they're screwing up the scoring deliberately I'd probably walk. I'm not into being the guy who complains about those problems more than once.
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Old 09-17-2012, 03:43 PM   #11
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I just don't understand why you keep participating. I would likely be just as annoyed as you are, in which case I would simply drop out, letting the organizers know my reason.
I did quit over cheating more than 10 years ago and let the organizers know at the time. The head cheater eventually moved on, but new cheaters have filled the void. But I realized quitting also kept me from competing at a sport I love unless I wanted to travel great distances (kind of cutting off my nose...). So I'm back at it, though my personal inve$tment is a fraction of what it was then (remember, my example is not actually golf). And I do speak up in every case where the cheating affects my team/division, so no one is cheating on us. But for whatever reason it bothers me to know other teams in other divisions are unwittingly being cheated. It's difficult for me to ignore, I guess honest competition is just too important to me (my character flaw to deal with). Animorph put it well "I'm not into being the guy who complains about problems more than once" but I lose an activity I really enjoy by walking away. I truly wish I could be like others who don't know or don't care...I find I often take everything too seriously.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:22 PM   #12
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I did quit over cheating more than 10 years ago and let the organizers know at the time. The head cheater eventually moved on, but new cheaters have filled the void. But I realized quitting also kept me from competing at a sport I love unless I wanted to travel great distances (kind of cutting off my nose...). So I'm back at it, though my personal inve$tment is a fraction of what it was then (remember, my example is not actually golf). And I do speak up in every case where the cheating affects my team/division, so no one is cheating on us. But for whatever reason it bothers me to know other teams in other divisions are unwittingly being cheated. It's difficult for me to ignore, I guess honest competition is just too important to me (my character flaw to deal with). Animorph put it well "I'm not into being the guy who complains about problems more than once" but I lose an activity I really enjoy by walking away. I truly wish I could be like others who don't know or don't care...I find I often take everything too seriously.

This post seems to indicate that you HAVE to have a league in order to enjoy your sport....

Golf and bowling can be enjoyed without a league... soccer or volleyball not as much...

Why will you not tell us the sport Knowing that can make a difference in what people think... also, you do not mention what kind of cheating it is...

As an example... when my BIL was alive he did a few sailing regattas.... you would get a trophy if you were in the top three (I think)... you were supposed to tell how much time you used your motor.... in your example, being honest... some people think the winning team cheated and used it more... my BIL had the attitude that if you wanted first place so bad you would lie.... then so be it.... it did not take away from his pleasure of sailing... me, I would be more like you on this example and would speak up...
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:30 PM   #13
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Why will you not tell us the sport Knowing that can make a difference in what people think... also, you do not mention what kind of cheating it is...
Because I'm convinced what sport wouldn't make a fundamental difference. I know I'd feel much the same were it golf, bowling or tiddlywinks...not the point IMHO.
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Old 09-17-2012, 04:47 PM   #14
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Reminds me of the old "Leave It To Beaver" episode, "Wally and Dudley."

The show wasn't about cheating, but in the end Beaver and Wally conclude, there will always be people like Eddie Haskell around.



Part the the humor with Eddie of course, was how he was so phony trying to impress Wally and Beaver's folks, yet he thought he had them fooled.
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:40 PM   #15
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Anything Worth Having is Worth Cheating For - WC Fields

The cheaters would bother me too !

But I would advise to keep playing if you enjoy it. Otherwise life is too short. If you enjoy the game then who cares who won !

Perhaps it's best to ratchet down the competiveness here.

Alternately you could one-up the cheaters. tell em' - "Yeah I made that hole in 1 backhand stroke with my broken putter, a kangaroo then appeared out of nowhere, put my ball in it's pouch and then hopped on down to the green and deposited it in the hole"

Or tell em' that you have special balls matched to the ionic wind.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:24 PM   #16
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The results have been compromised by outright cheating in a few cases, and innocent mistakes in more cases.
I tend not to ignore outright cheating, it's dishonest. If volunteers are making innocent mistakes it leads to:

Quote:
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They've told me "maybe you should be in charge next year."
Well, why not?
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:04 PM   #17
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Old 09-18-2012, 04:58 AM   #18
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In my way of thinking, cheating is cheating. If a person would cheat during a sporting competition they would probably cheat in other aspects of their lives and I wouldn't trust them, period... Cheats, liars and thieves, I have no use for.
+1
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