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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 07:25 AM   #41
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Speaking of divorces, I know a guy who's banked in the vicinity of $3 million in the last seven years but doesn't quit because his marriage wouldn't stand the strain of him being home full-time. He's an incorrigible bully. He also needs the personal validation the power of his position (junior exec) gives him.

And no, it's not me.

Ed
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 08:04 AM   #42
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?


Quote:

No kidding. My DH gets very irritated at his and my relatives and their handling of money. *I feel the same; *there is something about family that can just drive you nuts. *But like you I now avoid the subject of saving and investing (and choice of spouses) like the plague.

And my firm has done 3 divorces for my siblings for free. *NO MORE!
Martha: I have developed the same policy that the military uses re: Gays, "Don't ask, Don't Tell, with my two children.
I left home at 17, (attempting to escape the rural poverty that I was raised in).
My children had the "disadvantage" of not knowing what grinding poverty can do to your Psychic, and the motivation that it gives you to do what it takes to avoid having to live like that again.
Both of my kids have never been lazy, and have done well in the earning dept., but they spend every dime they make, and so up to about 5 years ago, every time we got together, (They both live a distance away), before the visit was over, there was a period of "high tension", (brought on by yours truly) regarding their "high consumption life style".
When we get together now, we have a good visit, and as long as I can fight off the impulse to give them "unsolicited advice", it goes well.


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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 08:07 AM   #43
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Martha, yeah, the friends I mention are like family, my wife and I came to the conclustion to never mention the subject again after Sunday. Too frustrating when people are near and dear.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 09:36 AM   #44
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

This is a very interesting thread - I myself adhere to th's view but can understand Martha's view. Most of us on this board are very fortunate to have lived/grown up in the richest country in the world - we many times are able to 'afford' a few wrong decisions and still end up economically well-off. It is difficult for me to understand when people don't take advantage of the opportunities offered them---

As for families and lifestyle - I can relate. I'm the only child left of my parent's union (they are divorced and both remarried - much longer to second spouses than each other) and when I hear the stories of serious $$$ flying out the door to adults (the step siblings who are older than I) who have made serious errors in judgement - i.e. major bailing out for truly stupid behavior - I cringe. I don't know what it is, but if I had to go hat in hand to either of my parents, I'd be disappointed in myself. For one of them it probably wouldn't be possible to help me, but for the other, the thought of disappointing them would hurt me more as I so respect them.

Deserat - aka Bridget
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 01:15 PM   #45
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Think most of us tend to apply our "decisions, choices, knowlege" to everyone else. Most of us can probably find parts of our "success" attributable to choices, lack of making a choice (which is one), luck, and often, just letting whatever happens, happen, and then making it work for us. Staying with the job another 18 months when I could leave (could have left 4 years ago), is a choice for me based upon my wife's required additional 12 months for full pension benefits. Since I am here, and not where we will retire, there wasn't much reason to walk away from the money, or the additional pension benefits that come with putting in more time. However, we are both ready for the "walking away time" to come as both of us are focused on the "choices" and "fun" that await...and enjoy every weekend and holiday away from the week day tasks.
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Ants vs the Grasshoppers!
Old 04-26-2005, 05:39 PM   #46
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Ants vs the Grasshoppers!

Quote:
From ex-Jarhead. Both of my kids have never been lazy, and have done well in the earning dept., but they spend every dime they make, and so up to about 5 years ago, every time we got together, (They both live a distance away), before the visit was over, there was a period of "high tension", (brought on by yours truly) regarding their "high consumption life style".
I totally identify with you, ex-Jarhead. (Except for the Jarhead part -- I'm ex-Squid myself.) I don't have kids, but I have a sister with some "issues." She's very good at LBYM, but she's not interested in EARNING much. She'll do volunteer work all day long -- not lazy by any means -- but hasn't ever pulled down any meaningful dollars. This wouldn't be a problem except that I love her to death and all offers to help her plan a financial future have caused that "high tension" you mention.

QUESTION to ALL: What are your plans if the free-spending, non-saving kids / relatives / others you care about find themselves in trouble? What if they have medical issues later in life, or lose their homes, etc.? Are you going to be able to shut the door on your "grasshopper" relatives when and if disaster strikes and they come to you, the hard-working, hard-saving ant, to help out?

Has anyone faced this issue and been able to chart a course that lets them sleep nights?

I've been the responsible one in my family all my life -- the upside is I'm happy with progress thus far, especially considering where I started (again, Jarhead, we have something in common). The downside -- you can see others' mistakes and there may come a time when those mistakes catch up with them.

Maybe I just worry too much... :P
Caroline
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 06:15 PM   #47
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Hi Caroline, You worry too much

JG
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-26-2005, 09:41 PM   #48
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

I watched a cartoon as a kid where the ants worked all summer while the grasshopper played his fiddle. Snows came and he came begging at the anthill. The eventually let him stick around as long as he entertained. I fully accept my role as the ant hill. I love my siblings and wouldn't change them. When they need help, I'll be there. I'm just working on figuring out the best way to do just that.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-27-2005, 05:08 AM   #49
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Gotta stay to keep our health benefits... but once husband hits minimum retirement age we're both cutting the strings.

Caroline,
My brother is like your sister... spends every dime. If he should lose his high-tech job (probability is good that this will happen some day...) it will get interesting.

Our parents set the LBYM example... even though I was a rebel in other ways, I picked up on this habit early on. My bro was perfect in all ways but loved to spend from an early age... first big summer paycheck bought a gigantic stereo, and it hasn't stopped. My parents try to hold their tongues.
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Re: Ants vs the Grasshoppers!
Old 04-27-2005, 03:39 PM   #50
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Re: Ants vs the Grasshoppers!

Quote:


QUESTION to ALL: *What are your plans if the free-spending, non-saving kids / relatives / others you care about find themselves in trouble? *


Caroline
For the kids (and grandkids) we'll always have a bedroom or two, food on the table, and, yes, a few dollars if they need it
For all the others, their on their own, able to take care of themselves and responsible for their decisions.
That's just the way we feel.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-28-2005, 07:34 AM   #51
 
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Quote:
QUESTION to ALL: *What are your plans if the free-spending, non-saving kids / relatives / others you care about find themselves in trouble? *
Excellent question. *I'm pretty sure I will tell them they are on their own. * I've taken some small steps in order to to help prevent this.

SISTER 1

Double modest income with two kids, but spends like sailor. *Expensive home, big vacations, tons of stuff. * Always spending, remodeling, etc. *I've refrained from giving her advice (other than "wow, can you really afford all this?"), but I recently bought her Brennan's book "Straight talk on Investing." *I think that may help, but she probably won't need handouts anyway.

SISTER 2

Didn't save much, then married a rich person late in life. *

SISTER 3

Single mom, artist type, never had a real job until three years ago. *Life savings of $2,000, no house, 59 years old. *New job of $47,000 per year for three years and she's saved nothing. *

She came to me over Christmas vacation and asked me to help her start saving, and I started her on automatic investments to a Roth Vanguard Target Retirement fund. *Note that I gave her written warnings that she should see a real financial planner, and I was just getting her started. * That way I hope to avoid the pitfalls of giving investment advice.

But one month later she emailed to say that she canceled the automatic investments but will be sending off "as much as she can."

So that's a train wreck waiting to happen. * A good chance that she'll come to me some day for a "loan." *Who knows?
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-28-2005, 01:26 PM   #52
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Quote:
Martha: I have developed the same policy that the military uses re: Gays, "Don't ask, Don't Tell, with my two children.
I left home at 17, (attempting to escape the rural poverty that I was raised in).
My children had the "disadvantage" of not knowing what grinding poverty can do to your Psychic, and the motivation that it gives you to do what it takes to avoid having to live like that again.
Both of my kids have never been lazy, and have done well in the earning dept., but they spend every dime they make, and so up to about 5 years ago, every time we got together, (They both live a distance away), before the visit was over, there was a period of "high tension", (brought on by yours truly) regarding their "high consumption life style".
When we get together now, we have a good visit, and as long as I can fight off the impulse to give them "unsolicited advice", it goes well.

Jarhead, I did the same. Never forget poverty. I have two daughters. One of them and her husband cannot keep a dollar. It's gotta be spent and they live a more expensive lifestyle than I do. What would I do if they really got in trouble. Well, I have extra bedrooms and plenty of food. No money, though, until I see some selling of the high-dollar items (cars, boat, big tv, etc.) I have counselled them to LBYM. I have also told them repeatedly to save 10% of their income. Ain't gonna happen. If they won't listen, well, we'll take the bedroom upstairs and they can have ours.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-28-2005, 02:48 PM   #53
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

I have mixed emotions about kids. On the one hand
I feel like I would do about anything to help them.
OTOH, I remember when my son was continuously in
trouble and I told him, "Next time, don't call me!"
So far, he hasn't.

JG
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 05:21 AM   #54
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

I will always "be there" for my family. BUT that doesnt mean open access to the checkbook....esp now that I'm ER'ed. Its a matter of how you help.

On Suze Orman the other night a dopey daughter ran up thousands of dollars on credit cards and couldnt handle the pressure of the creditors demands, phone harassment, etc. So mom and dad bail the kid out. The kid pays a few hundred bucks then then goes shopping again! Mom and Dad freak out every time the kid shows up with a new outfit.

Suze finally asks the kid "Whom would rather owe, the cc company or your parents?" Kid says,"The company of course. Owing the parents screws up everything relationshipwise."

So who got helped? Sometimes its better to let them find their own way. Solving all kids problems leads to kids with no prblem solving skills.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 05:40 AM   #55
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Like my dear old Dad said way back when I first got my drivers license - DO NOT call me from jail.

With adulthood comes responsibility.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 05:56 AM   #56
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Hey unclemick! I told my son exactly the same thing.
Subsequently he did call me from jail. I got out of bed in the middle of the night, drove downtown and got him out. They are always your kids no matter what.
BTW, he turned out great. Just needed to grow up.

JG
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 06:52 AM   #57
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

Ah yes - I remember my one and only stolen car(age 16).

After being grounded(in SUMMER!). Pushed the family car around the corner with a couple of buddies, started to hop in and go riding - saw the 'old man' in the screen door. After a while, thought better of it, dropped them off and decided to go home and face the music. Cops pulled me over and while sitting in the back of the police car they patched into home to say the car had been recovered intact. I yelled 'hi Dad'. They brought me and the car home. After I got knocked off the front porch and banged around the yard a little(Dad was a 6'2" logger), the police( Primo and Quick) saved on paperwork and I confined my future transgressions to speeding tickets(which I paid).

Small town in Washington - a very long time ago.
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 03:03 PM   #58
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

I believe that I have FI but do not quit because my portfolio is not growing, am concerned about the unknown costa and I am paid a very good salary. Maybe next year........
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 04:07 PM   #59
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

My maximum earnings and minimum effort expended
happened to coincide. I quit anyway. Never have regretted it. If you wait until all "unknowns are known"
(Rummyism) you will never do it. Remember this.............
A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow.

JG
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?
Old 04-29-2005, 04:15 PM   #60
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Re: Why don't more people just quit?

JG
I agree. It is difficult to leave a good paying job when my porfolio is going nowhere.
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