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Old 05-18-2009, 09:22 AM   #181
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I'm probably not the best person to comment, being cheerfully single and all, but anyhow...
No problem, from age 18 until my early 30's I was cheerfully single too. I would not trade DW or my kids for anything, but those years were some wild and fun times.......
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:09 AM   #182
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This is a fantastic thread. Jambo's situation is not good, but the fact that a number of regulars have spoken to their significant others about it, is good. I brought this up to my wife this weekend.

Her basic take was mostly the same as mine. If money or property comes in to the marriage, it is ours jointly. Now, interestingly to me, I said that I could kind of see the point about inheritances feeling like a special case where the inheritor would feel an emotional bond to that money and want to have sole say over its disposition, even if I didn't necessarily agree with it. She was a bit on the flip side, where inherited money is a windfall, but money earned has a higher emotional tie since you worked for it.

Still, we'll be splitting whatever happens to come our way, but won't be counting on it.

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You might be onto something DangerMouse as her dozen or so best friends have a lot in common,they are all single due to divorce or separation,All their kids are now in their late teens,they are all constantly emailing each other derogatory joke pages about guys,and they are all fat..I'm now starting to wonder just how relevant me and the kids are in her life and maybe after 32 years of a solid paycheck every week and the kids being now grown up her attitude maybe her way of saying Jim you're REDUNDANT!!in which case its going to come down to should i leave? or should she leave?
Yoikes. I can just envision a conversation... "Keep that money, girlfriend, that no-good might just ditch you". "Heh. Guess what I just did? I'm not giving him any money, I told him to ride the bus!" "You go, girl!"

I joke, but not really. A group like that can have a profound influence. She might (consciously or unconsciously) feel like she isn't really a full-fledged member of that group until she is divorced.

The more details that trickle out, the less it seems that it really is about the money. But it'd be fascinating to hear her side of the story as well. Here's hoping for your situation to be resolved peacefully.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:04 AM   #183
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I have read EVERY POST in this thread, just because the story is compelling but not too uncommon. This is a serious matter for jambo, but there seem to be underlying causes that have been there for some time. I doubt Mrs. Jambo knows jambo is posting on here and discussing their personal issues, but that's another point. jambo was just looking for anonymous advice and that's what he's getting.

Knocking the rust off my minor in psychology after too long, and having had a few days to ponder the advice all have given, I would offer this. (Last week I was too emotional about this, one would think I WAS going through menoapuse....

1)Jambo and his wife has never set clear definitions of their "money life" together. Realize that most folks have never done this, obviously jambo's wife believes that the money from her parents represents two things, freedom from dependency on Jim, and trying to put the money (in her mind) to good use. She is protective of the money because to her it has deep emotional attachment, moreso than money should but often does.

2)There is a clear imbalance of "equity" in this marriage. Jambo's wife knows he has given more monetarily to the marriage and it bugs her. It probably has bugged her for quite some time. I am not sure if she stayed home and raised the kids, if so, she feels she has given a fair value in TIME versus money, and thinks jambo should realize that her time is of the same value as Jim's larger money to support the household. It is clear that this imbalance has been in place for years if not decades. I am not sure if there is an easy solution or even one at all that can happen. I do doubt,however, that this can be solved without an impartial third party involved(counselor).

3)This could be a "test" of their marriage. Her somewhat cavalier attitude toward the money being HERS could stem from the following:

a)She resents Jim in some way and is trying to get back at him
b)She grew up with little or nothing and now feels she can do things she never could before.
c)She is pulling a power play and testing Jim's commitment to the relationship

I doubt you are redundant. Jim. It could be your wife feels she has OUTGROWN your relationship in some way. Divorces have happened for less than that. Maybe her friends are filling her head with how wonderful life is without the "ball and chain" of a marriage. Again, not having info from jambo's wife makes this much harder to get a handle on.

Best of luck. I think it might be too late for "heart-to-heart", that ship has sailed. If she agrees to counseling, then you have a chance to make this work. If she doesn't, you know where you stand, which would probably be a divorce. In effect, her willigness to go to counseling is the test of your relationship. I hope she agrees, because that means she has NOT emotionally "checked out" of your marriage.

Sorry for the rambling........
This is an excellent post. I would add to point 3 one other possibility
d) most of her friends are divorced and are impaired financially as a consequence, she sees this money as protection and is unable or unwilling to disclose this to Jim.

Another reason (and vote) for counseling.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:26 AM   #184
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We've had the talk about the inheritance and what to do with it a year and a half ago when she first got it,at that time it was made abundantly clear that i was to play no part in its dispensation and for a year and a half the topic has not really been discussed until recently when i thought buying a needed newer car would be a lot more financially prudent if she bought the car rather than me cashing out a retirement fund.We had this conversation a month or so ago and its over,she aint paying for the car,i'm cashing out an investment to take care of the car and she has put her foot down about any future discussion about her inheiritance= its VERBOTEN!!!
Well, she's not sending mixed messages. As you mentioned earlier, it sounds as if she feels the inherited money should be hoarded for more important things like potential long-term care expenses.

Or maybe she's enjoying the feeling of being in charge of some of the money. It might make this whole situation less contentious if you supported her decision by admitting to her that you've reconsidered your earlier statements and come to realize that she's been right all along.

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Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
You might be onto something DangerMouse as her dozen or so best friends have a lot in common,they are all single due to divorce or separation,All their kids are now in their late teens,they are all constantly emailing each other derogatory joke pages about guys,and they are all fat..I'm now starting to wonder just how relevant me and the kids are in her life and maybe after 32 years of a solid paycheck every week and the kids being now grown up her attitude maybe her way of saying Jim you're REDUNDANT!!in which case its going to come down to should i leave? or should she leave?
This reminds me of Chris Crowley's discussion of "Old Fred" in the book "Younger Next Year for Women". Guys should read this book just for their own self-defense... even if you've already read "Younger Next Year".

Jambo, IMO if you go back and re-read your contributions to this 100+ post thread, what started out as a quiet little yellow "Check Engine" light is now a roomful of flashing rotating red lights with sirens and warning buzzers. You guys need to seek professional help of the marital-counseling or legal varieties. Or at least you do-- your spouse may have already arrived at a decision.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:37 AM   #185
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.Or maybe she's enjoying the feeling of being in charge of some of the money. It might make this whole situation less contentious if you supported her decision by admitting to her that you've reconsidered your earlier statements and come to realize that she's been right all along.
So, in other words, give up?
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:37 AM   #186
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Many posts have focused on which party is in the right, which one bears the blame.

I think both parties can be doing what they feel is and will be rewarding for them, and still behaving the way they are.

Men and women are not the problem Most of us need, like and enjoy members of the opposite sex.

The problem is that marriage is an obsolete institution. I times past the kind of economic self-sufficiency that men and women tend to achieve and demand today was only available to the aristocracy. Look at family pictures of farmers and ordinary people before the 20th century. Did they look joyful? Hell no, but at least they were surviving. Joy was an occasional visitor that no sane person would have expected from marriage.

And read about aristocrats- did they not often treat marriage as a business and procreative deal, not a lifetime pledge of exclusive love?

We demand a lot of our relationships today, and not surprisingly a fairly large number of people find that typical man-woman relationships, including marriage, are not delivering on that demand. The unmarried with these feelings move along; but for the married there are wrenching decisions to be made.

Can you think of any other life-state that so many of us embrace and eagerly enter into that routinely causes this much pain and economic dislocation?

Americans are romantics and slow learners; but even we are learning. I believe that something like 40% of US babies were born to unmarried women last year.

Ha
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:41 AM   #187
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Can you think of any other life-state that so many of us embrace and eagerly enter into that causes this much pain and economic dislocation?
Parenthood...
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:46 AM   #188
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...her to be away so much of the time with friends and with volunteering and then come home and be so awful to you and your family. How are your children going to remember their childhoods?
This by far is the biggest red flag in the situation, besides the $ influence.
Devoting more time to friends and "volunteering" than home life, i.e. husband AND kids, is a strong signal
to all members of the family. Add to that the rude behavior to ALL family members and you have the recipe for a very unhappy DW. And none of this could be anyone's fault but what is inside her own head.
I am not there in person, but from the outside of the aquarium, this is by far the biggest indicator
of where her head is at. Not in a good place, and certainly unfair to more than Jambo.
As an example, I do a lot of volunteer work, but it does not and never shall replace my home life,
either my past one with LH or this one with dh2b. It is a question of priorities.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:05 PM   #189
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You might be onto something DangerMouse as her dozen or so best friends have a lot in common,they are all single due to divorce or separation,All their kids are now in their late teens,they are all constantly emailing each other derogatory joke pages about guys,and they are all fat..I'm now starting to wonder just how relevant me and the kids are in her life and maybe after 32 years of a solid paycheck every week and the kids being now grown up her attitude maybe her way of saying Jim you're REDUNDANT!!in which case its going to come down to should i leave? or should she leave?

Jambo, totally forget who should be leaving, you are getting ahead of yourself. The first thing you need to do is find out what is going on with your wife and the best way of making that happen is to ask her. So ask her if she is happy, if the answer is yes, let her know how much she means to you and what pleasure you take from the relationship. If the answer is no, you need to find out what the issues are and the two of you need to get working on it. This is definitely about much more than buying a new car.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:07 PM   #190
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I, like several other posters, would love to know Mrs. jambo's thoughts, but then it seems that jambo would love to know Mrs. jambo's thoughts.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:15 PM   #191
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Americans are romantics and slow learners; but even we are learning. I believe that something like 40% of US babies were born to unmarried women last year.

I have heard this statement literally hundreds of times. First time I've ever heard (read) it presented as a good thing.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:20 PM   #192
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So, in other words, give up?
Give up which? Give up $500K that was never his in the first place yet may eventually be used for his care, or give up what's left of the marriage squabbling over $500K that was never his in the first place yet may eventually be used for his care?
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:51 PM   #193
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:00 PM   #194
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There's been a lot of talk about divorce in this thread. You mentioned earlier that if not for your kids, you'd be gone. I can tell you that most kids of divorce that I've talked to (and there are a lot of us) will say that they'd choose amicably separated parents 8 days a week over surly co-habitating parents. Would you *really* leave if not for the kids? Or are you just mad about the current situation?

In my case, 4 or 5 years into my marriage I was contemplating divorce. My wife and I were fighting too often over what I felt were petty issues, and rehashing the same arguments over and over. We both ended up getting individual (not couples) counseling. Now 10 years later, we're still married, have 2 beautiful kids, and have never been closer or happier. I can't adequately express in words how glad I am that I didn't throw away my relationship with my best friend a decade ago.

So, to flip the conversation around a bit: what do you love about your wife, Jambo? Is yours a marriage worth saving?
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:13 PM   #195
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Many posts have focused on which party is in the right, which one bears the blame.

I think both parties can be doing what they feel is and will be rewarding for them, and still behaving the way they are.

Men and women are not the problem Most of us need, like and enjoy members of the opposite sex.

The problem is that marriage is an obsolete institution. I times past the kind of economic self-sufficiency that men and women tend to achieve and demand today was only available to the aristocracy. Look at family pictures of farmers and ordinary people before the 20th century. Did they look joyful? Hell no, but at least they were surviving. Joy was an occasional visitor that no sane person would have expected from marriage.

And read about aristocrats- did they not often treat marriage as a business and procreative deal, not a lifetime pledge of exclusive love?

We demand a lot of our relationships today, and not surprisingly a fairly large number of people find that typical man-woman relationships, including marriage, are not delivering on that demand. The unmarried with these feelings move along; but for the married there are wrenching decisions to be made.

Can you think of any other life-state that so many of us embrace and eagerly enter into that routinely causes this much pain and economic dislocation?

Americans are romantics and slow learners; but even we are learning. I believe that something like 40% of US babies were born to unmarried women last year.

Ha
Excellent post Ha. But remember, la famille Jambo lives in La Belle Province (Quebec), where novel living arrangements are much more common.

The Daily, Wednesday, September 12, 2007. 2006*Census: Families, marital status, households and dwelling characteristics

http://geodepot.statcan.gc.ca/2006/1...120123-eng.pdf
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:34 PM   #196
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Give up which? Give up $500K that was never his in the first place yet may eventually be used for his care, or give up what's left of the marriage squabbling over $500K that was never his in the first place yet may eventually be used for his care?
Read jambo's posts, the $500K is the LAST part of the issue,not the first.......there are much deeper unlderlying issues than money......
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:56 PM   #197
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I, like several other posters, would love to know Mrs. jambo's thoughts, but then it seems that jambo would love to know Mrs. jambo's thoughts.
I'd love to show her this topic and let her read all the great responses but i just know she would take it the wrong way.starting with=
You're airing our problems to the world??
The inheritance issue has been resolved why are you still dwelling on it
The car issue has been resolved "what dont you understand about NO"
Every post i made would be a rehash of arguments/disagreements that she would presume were laid to rest months ago.
Etc,etc,etc.
So its in my best interest to keep this can of worms to myself and apply some of the learned strategys and ideas to my own decisions and peace of mind.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:16 PM   #198
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But Jambo are you going to take the first step to establish if Mrs Jambo is happy in your marriage? It sounds as if there are some communication issues and if they remain unresolved how do you see the coming years playing out? Life is too short to fill it with resentment and unspoken words.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:52 PM   #199
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32 years of marriage for us as well. I've earned far more of the income than DW through the years, but we always considered everything to be joint. When she received an inheritance from her parents' estate, it went into joint savings where we agreed on how it would be spent/invested.

I've seen situations where one spouse had seen a friend or relative left high and dry by their mate mishandling money somehow; a bad business venture, a gambling problem, compulsive spending etc. I'm not saying you've given her any reason to fear this. She may have unjustified fears from seeing someone else's bad experience.

A GOOD counselor may be able to get to the root of this.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:35 PM   #200
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To me this is a relationship issue, and the symptom is money. Great symptom, bad situation. I am in a similar situation, what I earn is ours, what she earns is hers. She teaches part time and is a coach in the spring. This is a second marriage for both of us and I have seen signs she has trust issues with men in general. Hard deal to get past. But I feel, and have told DW, that this marriage is a partnership and everyone ought to be on the same page, not necessarily that page of one or the other, but one that is agreed upon by both. If Jambo pursues this no good will come of it probably. Glad so many of you have a relationship where there is only one book.
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