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Old 12-01-2010, 08:37 AM   #41
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Wikileaks web site refers to the Pentagon papers as an example of what they aspire to achieve. Nothing they have published so far is deserving of that comparison. It is mostly internal communication. The Iraq war information is emotionally charged and somewhat troubling, but nothing so far even remotely resembles the purposeful and systematic deceit that was identified by Mr. Ellsberg.

We do not know anything about Mr. Assange, his motivations or mental state. Clearly, however, his project is failing its stated objective. Perhaps someday some media outlet will notice this and report it.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:12 AM   #42
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Just found this and thought it brazen as hell.
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Stengel asked Assange if U.S. Army PFC Bradley Manning, now detained in Quantico, Va., was the sole source of the megaleak. "We're a source-protection organization," Assange said, "so the last thing we would do is discuss possible sources." (Emphasis added)
Read more: WikiLeaks Founder Assange to TIME: Clinton 'Should Resign' - TIME
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Old 12-01-2010, 10:03 AM   #43
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"I don't think it would make much of a difference either way," Assange said. "But she should resign if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering U.S. diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the U.S. has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that."
This is a particularly anti-US view, as it ignores the conduct of others involved. The absence of critical thinking and useful analysis in our media is a shame.

My conclusion so far - perhaps premature - is that US gov't policy development and execution has been subject to so much public scrutiny over the past two decades the type of nefarious secret Mr. Assange et.al. want to expose does not exist in the US. Some things are rightfully kept secret and hopefully they will stay that way. The type of information being “leaked” is situational, not policy level, and shows no conspiracy, just ineptitude or mid-level leadership shortcomings.

Despite the references to leaks elsewhere, the bigger question in my mind is what is happening in the parts of the world where there is far less public scrutiny?
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:13 PM   #44
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Diplomats spy! WOW now that really is news! NOT!
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:24 PM   #45
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Diplomats spy! WOW now that really is news! NOT!
Yep, even superpower ambassadors have been known to do it:

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Old 12-01-2010, 04:45 PM   #46
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Anyone want to post a prediction around when they are going to find the "twisted little freak" floating in an Amsterdam canal from an apparent "drug overdose"? He won't just disappear, some might misunderstand the message...

I'll say January 4th, 2011
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:53 PM   #47
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My conclusion so far - perhaps premature - is that US gov't policy development and execution has been subject to so much public scrutiny over the past two decades the type of nefarious secret Mr. Assange et.al. want to expose does not exist in the US.
I'm withholding judgement for the moment. But I'm interested in what's happening in the world in general and I'm curious to see where this will lead.

I'm not sure what you base your conclusions on. But I guess much depends on where you get your news. Some voice concern that both parties may be in the pockets of Wall Street and the big corporations that feed off the war machine, the healthcare system, etc. Some examples: Noam Chomsky, popular financial news site ZeroHedge, etc. Are they right? I don't know.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:49 AM   #48
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I'm withholding judgement for the moment. But I'm interested in what's happening in the world in general and I'm curious to see where this will lead.

I'm not sure what you base your conclusions on. But I guess much depends on where you get your news. Some voice concern that both parties may be in the pockets of Wall Street and the big corporations that feed off the war machine, the healthcare system, etc. Some examples: Noam Chomsky, popular financial news site ZeroHedge, etc. Are they right? I don't know.
We may be talking about different things. I think there’s no doubt about who influences our current elected representatives. There is a great deal of public scrutiny. Contributions are public record. Lobbyists do not hide in the shadows, they dine in public in the finest restaurants. This is voter apathy, not lack of scrutiny.

The secrecy and purposeful misrepresentation I was referring to covered things like bombing in Cambodia, the toppling of the Chilean gov’t, Iran-Contra, and using gov’t law enforcement and intelligence agencies to engage in partisan political repression. My opinion is this type of willful deceit has not been evident for the past two decades and our political system is more transparent than at any time in the past century.
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:53 AM   #49
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Charlie Rose interviewed Rick Stengel (editor, Time magazine) on Nov 30. The link is not up yet but it was a very informative interview and I would highly recommend it for anyone interested in this.Charlie Rose - Rick Stengel on WikiLeaks The website says Rick Stengel but another earlier interview shows.

Mr. Stengel certainly feels that Mr. Assange is naively dangerous and clearly focused on the US.
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:29 PM   #50
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OK, so you think he's cute and give him a "not a twisted little freak' judgment based on that.

Get a life.......
i didn't ponder his cuteness. you just made it seem like you based your assessment of him (solely?) on his looks. if that's not the case, my apologies. that's how it appeared to me in your prev post..

i also said in my prev post that i reserved judgement since i didn't know
a lot about all of the details. If we're soliciting snap judgements on this thread, then i'd guess he's not a good guy.

I'm working on the get a life part.. Apparently w/ only mixed success
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Old 12-02-2010, 02:36 PM   #51
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Charlie Rose interviewed Rick Stengel (editor, Time magazine) on Nov 30. The link is not up yet but it was a very informative interview and I would highly recommend it for anyone interested in this.Charlie Rose - Rick Stengel on WikiLeaks The website says Rick Stengel but another earlier interview shows.

Mr. Stengel certainly feels that Mr. Assange is naively dangerous and clearly focused on the US.
Thanks for the link! I'll have to check this out..
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:11 PM   #52
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I think the mainstream media are giving too much credibility to a blog run by a foreigner. They must be thirsty for smut! Calling it WikiLeaks was a great stroke, fooling people into thinking it was credible.

OTOH if the government really acted like this, then who are the fools?
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Old 12-02-2010, 05:22 PM   #53
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Calling it WikiLeaks was a great stroke, fooling people into thinking it was credible.
I guess I've been fooled. In the Charlie Rose interviews referred to, the possibility that the leaked documents were not genuine but were fabricated was not even raised.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:11 PM   #54
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In the Charlie Rose interviews referred to, the possibility that the leaked documents were not genuine but were fabricated was not even raised.
Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoonist, proposed today (I suppose jokingly) the idea that the US government is behind Wikileaks and that's why nothing major has been leaked so far. He suggests maybe they want an idea to be "accidentally" released to the world.

And apparently in 2007 a certain guy who runs a similar site said WL was a CIA front.

As if we needed more confusion!
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:10 AM   #55
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I believe the person that leaked the information should face the death penalty. It would make the next scum think twice. It would surprise me if Julian Assange survives this. His actions exposes a lot more that just the US side of matters. He is a loose cannon that nations can ill afford to have around.
I think we are focusing way too much on Julian and way too little on the guy who took the data in the first place.

And let's talk about what incompetence in our diplomatic circles that allows all of these documents to be comingled on the same computer system, allows a private to gain access to them, apparently a private with only a conditional security clearance. The real stupidity is the system of safeguarding (or not) the information in the first place.

IMHO there's too much talk about Wikileaks and the real problems are elsewhere.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:49 AM   #56
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I think we are focusing way too much on Julian and way too little on the guy who took the data in the first place.

And let's talk about what incompetence in our diplomatic circles that allows all of these documents to be comingled on the same computer system, allows a private to gain access to them, apparently a private with only a conditional security clearance. The real stupidity is the system of safeguarding (or not) the information in the first place.

IMHO there's too much talk about Wikileaks and the real problems are elsewhere.
Remember the 9/11 commission and the directive for increased sharing among govt agencies? That's just the latest directive of that type, and incidents like this are the result. That's not to say that sharing is bad, but that it is very difficult to implement. I'm sure the billet PFC Manning (aka "Howdy Doody" occupied wasn't coded as "immature idiot with no need for access to sensitive information of a strategic nature."

Yes, we have to do better. PFC Manning and our procedures are the proper focus of the government's attention, but Assange and his group need to be addressed, too.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:15 AM   #57
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I am not happy about the US govt papers begin leaked.


But I hope he dumps those Banks leaks out there quickly before he is caught. I want to see some a few more bankers get what they deserve...
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:17 PM   #58
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I am not happy about the US govt papers begin leaked.


But I hope he dumps those Banks leaks out there quickly before he is caught. I want to see some a few more bankers get what they deserve...
Same here, but other than the nasty little thrill of reading someone else's mail, the first batch wasn't very impressive on the scandalous scale.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:15 PM   #59
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Same here, but other than the nasty little thrill of reading someone else's mail, the first batch wasn't very impressive on the scandalous scale.
Have you seen the latest?
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:25 PM   #60
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Have you seen the latest?
And even later:

WikiLeak Santa.JPG
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