Wikileaks - your thoughts - no politics

eridanus said:
It applies to the government and not solely to Congress. As for Senators calling private businesses, we'll never know if it was a violation of the Bill of Rights without a leak. :)

It could've been,
"This is Senator Lieberman's office and we think it violates laws."
Amazon: Oh, we didn't realize. We'll check on that.

Or it could've been,
"This is Senator Lieberman's office. We'd like you to take it down. Oh, by the way, the Senator is still undecided on the internet sales tax issue."
Amazon:...

Or it could've been,
"This is Senator Lieberman's office. Take it down or DOJ lawyers will be all over your offices within an hour."
Amazon: Wikileaks down! STAT!


Of course, we all know that Senators are upstanding politicians and would never use their positions of power illegally but aren't you a little bit concerned?

A simple threat to "national security" isn't a reason to censor Wikileaks. That was decided in NYT v. US (1971).
Click to expand...

The last example maybe some type of abuse of power, but I am not sure what is wrong with first two examples. There isn't a law involved in any of the cases. Or are you claiming the Senator Lieberman doesn't have the constitutional right to express his opinions:confused:? My understanding that NYT vs US involved prior restraint against published material. I am sure there is some relevance between the Pentagon papers and the Wikileaks case, but there are many differences starting with the fact the Assange isn't a US citizen, he may or may not be journalist/member of the press. The courts may ultimately rule that government has overstepped it authority in how it deals with wikileaks, but if Wikileaks is in fact to national security, I rather the government fight the website now and pay for damage later. Than do nothing.
 
From the news last night....

They are attacking Visa/Mastercard/Paypal because they cut off supporters from donating to Wikileaks...

Now, the reporter said they were supposed to cut off funding since the gvmt put Wikileaks on some terrorist list... (not sure if I heard it right, so don't hold me to this)....


I think it a bit much to put Wikileaks on a terrorist list since a bunch of the 'normal' media sites are reporting on what they find in the disclosures.... should the NYT be on the terror list:confused:
 
eridanus said:
The anti-wikens are showing their true colors. This isn't about Freedom of Press; it's about promoting fascism and suspending the Bill of Rights.

WikiLeaks website pulled by Amazon after US political pressure | Media | The Guardian

I say they should move to somewhere more amenable to their views such as, say, Myanmar. YMMV.
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My true colors are red, white and blue... Yours?

Bottom line is that classified documents were obtained illegally and posted online by a "twisted little freak" (Thanks Leonidas!) with an anti-US agenda. I'm glad that Amazon, Visa, and MC did the right thing by suspending payments for stolen materials.

How did Hope and Change morph into facism, I thought we were past all that...?:LOL:

But, so you can step up and support this important cause, here's how you can put your money where your mouth is:
Philadelphia mobile payments firm steps up for WikiLeaks | ITworld

I'm fine here in the US, thanks. Our Government is doing it's job on this one, in my opinion. Maybe Mr. Assange can suggest somewhere more amenable to your views; I hear he may be needing some outside help soon...:D
 
ERD50 said:
erdianus - OK, I got unlazy enough to read far enough to get this:



Seems reasonable to me. This stuff is stolen material. If Amazon was alerted that one of their merchants was peddling stolen material, I think they would shut them down. What's the problem?

-ERD50
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I don't like the term "stolen". It was illegally COPIED. And not by Wikileaks. Courts have already ruled (a la Pentagon Papers) that news outlets can legally publish illegally obtained materials (assuming the news organization did not do the illegal copying). And to my knowledge Wikileaks has been charged with no crimes. Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
 
Surfdaddy said:
I don't like the term "stolen". It was illegally COPIED. And not by Wikileaks. Courts have already ruled (a la Pentagon Papers) that news outlets can legally publish illegally obtained materials (assuming the news organization did not do the illegal copying). And to my knowledge Wikileaks has been charged with no crimes. Whatever happened to freedom of speech?
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I'm not a lawyer, I don't know. But those are the words in the article that was pointed to, so I'm just commenting based on that. Illegally seized, illegally copied, stolen - is there a meaningful difference? There is a lot of speculating going on, and some seem to be giving the wikileaks guy the benefit of every doubt, while assuming the worst on all counts from other parties.

We will see. Or, for the conspiracy theorists, we never will.

-ERD50
 
According to this article, Wikileaks has kept it's donor list secret in the past except for the noted gaffe. Do they still keep their donor list secret? I've not been able to find out yet. With their apparent anti U.S. slant I'd like to know where their funding is coming from.

Wikileaks Forced to Leak Its Own Secret Info — Update | Threat Level | Wired.com

Could some of our enemies be supporting them?
 
BTravlin said:
According to this article, Wikileaks has kept it's donor list secret in the past except for the noted gaffe. Do they still keep their donor list secret? I've not been able to find out yet. With their apparent anti U.S. slant I'd like to know where their funding is coming from.

Wikileaks Forced to Leak Its Own Secret Info — Update | Threat Level | Wired.com

Could some of our enemies be supporting them?
Click to expand...

Good Point!

His donor list, detailing the names, addresses, email addresses, contribution amounts and account numbers used for contributions of all Wiki contributors should immediately be published online.

Anything less is facism and suspending the Bill of Rights...:D
 
If the government wants to keep sensitive documents safe in the furture, they should store them wherever Obama's birth certificate is being kept.

Joking.
 
Zero said:
If the government wants to keep sensitive documents safe in the furture, they should store them wherever Obama's birth certificate is being kept.

Joking.
Click to expand...

A "secure undisclosed location"- for Dick Cheney, this was always on the golf course at Teton Pines in Jackson Hole- all the locals knew it because of the sudden influx of armored black Suburbans running up and down Fall Creek Road.
 
Who is attacking Wikileaks anonymously? - broadstuff

and the counter attack:

– The Netherlands public prosecutor said a 16-year-old boy has admitted to attacking the websites of MasterCard (MA) and Visa (V) in support of WikiLeaks. The suspect, who is from The Hague, will be held in custody for 13 days. The detention comes as the U.S. Justice Department is examining cyber attacks that have been blamed on WikiLeaks supporters.

MasterCard’s website was slowed this week by a flood of traffic in a denial-of-service attack after the company blocked payments to WikiLeaks via its network. (Bloomberg)
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wikileaks.png
 
I am usually not too interested in things like this, but just happened to see an article on the NY Times - Swedish Police Report - that provided some details on the sex charges that first appeared bogus to me.


"... their encounters with him began consensually, but became nonconsensual when he persisted in having unprotected sex with them in defiance of their insistence that he use a condom.

As previously reported, both women say that Mr. Assange first agreed to use a condom and then refused, in the first instance by continuing with sex after the condom broke, and in the second by having sex without using a condom with a woman who was asleep."​


The story looks familiar to me. A political figure is highly regarded by some female admirers. They later find out that he is just a jerk who takes advantage of them. What he does may or may not be criminal acts, but a jerk or ***h*l* he will reveal himself to be and not a hero as they dreamed of.

Oh, when will these naive groupie women ever learn?
 
I am not a supporter of wikileaks, I understand the Govt (us) needs to negotiate and maybe even lie sometimes. But I did read an interesting article (conservative paper but somewhat liberal columnist) that was insightful in that my CA senator was privy to information (as was the previous administration) that there were no WMDs in Iraq and they knew this clearly. Robert Scheer: Feinstein's own duplicity exposed by WikiLeaks dump - Pasadena Star-News
 
I just read the article whose link yakers provided above. Something else caught my eyes, and though it really strays from this thread topic, I have to make some comments.

"... released cables that show that our puppets in Iraq and Afghanistan are deeply corrupt and anti-democratic, and that al-Qaida continues to find its base of support not in those countries but rather in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates, the very nations we arm and protect."​

The US involvement in Iraq may have been a mistake, but the situation in Afghanistan is definitely different. So, the current regime may be corrupt, but it is still better for us than the Taliban. Only the naive idealists would be upset with the choice of a lesser evil which is all we can hope for, most of the time in this ugly world.
 
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