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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 02:38 PM   #21
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

Grumpy -

Have you ever looked at the water treatment stocks? Or are you mainly a dividend hound and limit your buys to the H2O utilities? Also (I know were an engineer in your working years) how possible would it be for a water pipeline to stretch across the US to supply to the dry areas? Seems like it could be a very costly solution.
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 02:49 PM   #22
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

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Originally Posted by wildcat
. . . Also (I know were an engineer in your working years) how possible would it be for a water pipeline to stretch across the US to supply to the dry areas?* Seems like it could be a very costly solution.
We already have systems in place in the Southwest that move water several hundred miles. Water from the Colorado River in the NW tip of Arizona is piped to Phoenix and Tucson. Additional water from the Salt and Verde Rivers is added to the mix. The water is pumped into and between several man made lakes around major population areas and then into the water supply. Existing rivers, canals and pipes are used to move the water from where it is to where we want it. I expect this kind of system will be added to rather than replaced. Another water source several hundred miles from some point on the Colorado river could be pumped into it. That water could eventually make it's way to Tucson.

Eventually, the water system may look something like the power grid. If you keep most of the system so that it works with gravity, it is an expense that can be dealt with.
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 02:55 PM   #23
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

SG -

How has your water bill changed over the years? From your response I suppose the pipeline could be extended beyond the rivers in the surrounding areas. Last time I checked Colorado was also having a tough time keeping up with the demand.
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 03:09 PM   #24
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

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SG -

How has your water bill changed over the years?* From your response I suppose the pipeline could be extended beyond the rivers in the surrounding areas.* Last time I checked Colorado was also having a tough time keeping up with the demand.
All of these dams, pipelines and water projects are subsidized by the Federal Government. You (and everyone else) pays much of my water bill. The bill DW and I see is for about 200 gallons per month and costs me about $20.00. That hasn't changed noticably over the past several years.

We water our yard using flood irrigation. Every 15 days I open up a valve and about 6 inches of water floods my entire 1/3 of an acre. That costs me $2.00 -- up from a $1.50 last year. Flood irrigation water is not treated and may contain some effluent water in the mix. Since it flows through pipes and isn't sprayed, there is very little evaporation and the water soakes into the ground and the ground-water.

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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 03:54 PM   #25
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

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Originally Posted by wildcat
Grumpy -

Have you ever looked at the water treatment stocks? Or are you mainly a dividend hound and limit your buys to the H2O utilities? Also (I know were an engineer in your working years) how possible would it be for a water pipeline to stretch across the US to supply to the dry areas? Seems like it could be a very costly solution.
Wildcat,

You have me pegged correctly in one respect but not the other. Yes, I am a dividend hound and so limit my buys to H2O utilitles. But although I worked for NASA I was not an engineer - I was a financial manager for space flight projects so I can't comment on the feasibility of a water pipeline.

Grumpy
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 05:06 PM   #26
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

A rambling note on water (mostly in CA) :

(1) Water has been an issue in the west for many years. *On a local level since the first immigrant farmers settled here and more recently on a regional, intra-state and even international level and I think that it is only going to get worse.

(2) Water has been diverted stolen from the Colorado river, the Sacramento river delta (N. Ca.) and the Owens valley to supply LA and agriculture in the Central Valley for many years. *I think that they first "tapped" water from the Owens valley around the turn of the century.

(3) There has been significant environmental degradation in the Owens valley because of the water loss.

(4) Just yesterday I heard that there was a new government study that concluded that more water could be diverted from the Sac. River Delta area without any environmental consequences and that some of the environmental groups were going to challenge it. *This has been a CA issue for many years. *It is basically nothern CA against southern CA and ag interests.

(5) As another poster mentioned water is subsidized by government dam building, etc. *Normal I support free market solutions but since the gov is already subsidizing the water it seem to me that some social engineering is warranted. *For example cotton and rice, two very water intensive crops are grown in the central valley. *For those of you that don't know, CA is a "desert" for about half the year. *We basically get zero rain from May through September. *Given that I don't think that it makes sense to grow cotton and rice in Ca. *Let Alabama and Louisiana do that. *CA ag can focus on fruit and nuts. *After all the rest of the country views CA as the "land of fruits and nuts" anyway *

(6) The water flow in the Colorado river has been decreasing for the last 100 years -- since the original agreements were made between the states on how the water should be divided. *There is less water available now than when they originally divided it up. *Furthermore, the "down stream" states of CA, NV and AZ use more than their allocation. *They are able to do this because historically the upstream states of CO, NM, UT and WY have not used their allocation. *Projections suggest that this will change in the future.* (I recall hearing this about 10 years ago.* I don't know if the agreements could have been reengoiated?)

(7) Mexico is also involved with both Colorado river quality and quantity. *Ten-twenty years ago there was a lot of discussion of building desalination plants along the border because the water quality had deteriorated to the point that it no longer met the quality requirements for our international agreements. *I don't know what happened?

(8) By the way water is pumped from the Delta (sea level) up over the mountains just north of LA (about 4000' I believe). *I would guess that they have a turbine on the other side to recover the energy.

So what will happen and can you profit from it? *I certainly don't know but it does seem that the type of infrastruture mega-projects that would be required for example to carry water from the Columbia river to CA have declined since the 70s. *It would seem that investing in companies that would profit from this sort of thing would be high risk-high return. *It would seem to me that investing in companies that "own" the water could provide an income stream with opportunity for growth. *In either case I would think that they would be long term.

By the way I just ripped out my front lawn and am in the process of replacing it with "california native plants." *According to the propaganda these plants are "adapted" to our climate and require little or no water (or fertilizer) during the summer and of course there is no mowing. *I estimate that it will save about $20/month for about 5 months off of the water bill. *I don't think that it is a great investment but it seemed like a good thing to do.

MB *
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 06:14 PM   #27
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

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. . .
(6) The water flow in the Colorado river has been decreasing for the last 100 years -- since the original agreements were made between the states on how the water should be divided. *There is less water available now than when they originally divided it up. *Furthermore, the "down stream" states of CA, NV and AZ use more than their allocation. *They are able to do this because historically the upstream states of CO, NM, UT and WY have not used their allocation. *Projections suggest that this will change in the future.* (I recall hearing this about 10 years ago.* I don't know if the agreements could have been reengoiated?)
In the past year or two, the upstream states took enough of their allocation that California did not get as much as they have been relying on. They sued and tried to force a renegotiation of the agreement but lost in court. They are looking for replacement sources the last I heard.

Quote:
(7) Mexico is also involved with both Colorado river quality and quantity. *Ten-twenty years ago there was a lot of discussion of building desalination plants along the border because the water quality had deteriorated to the point that it no longer met the quality requirements for our international agreements. *I don't know what happened?
The desalination plant was built, but I've been told by people who live down there that it is not operated. According to their accounts, Mexico has little recourse when the water doesn't flow and the water is not crtitical to any major population center in Mexico.
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 06:26 PM   #28
 
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

I have spoken to friends fo mine about California,a nd they are of the firm opinion that California does not need any more nuts

Agricultural Lobbies are strong the world over, most countries would save money if they paid Farmers to stay home, but you won't win that argument.

The fact is that most of the poorer countries of the world need to export Foods to survive, but powerful agricultural lobbies make sure they will stay in Poverty.
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?
Old 01-08-2006, 07:19 PM   #29
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Re: Will certain areas of the country run out of water?

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I have spoken to friends fo mine about California,a nd they are of the firm opinion that California does not need any more nuts
Yeh, but that's the way we like it

MB
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