Willie Nelson still doing it his way

[Rustic23]

Then change the law, if you can't get it changed, then don't obey it, but when you get caught, be willing and prepared to do the time. We all do that to some extent. Heck, most of us don't stop completely at stop signs, and most of us exceed the speed limit from time to time.

 

[martyb]

Then change the law, if you can't get it changed, then don't obey it, but when you get caught, be willing and prepared to do the time. We all do that to some extent. Heck, most of us don't stop completely at stop signs, and most of us exceed the speed limit from time to time.

I do stop completely at all stop signs. However, I DO tend to exceed the speed limit now & then. Maybe even more than now & then.

 

[RonBoyd]

I know! This law is only meant to affect black and latino male teenagers, using a criminal record to ruin their hope of a productive future, not to harass affluent, white senior citizens! Sheesh!

+1!!!!

 

[FUEGO]

Then change the law, if you can't get it changed, then don't obey it, but when you get caught, be willing and prepared to do the time. We all do that to some extent. Heck, most of us don't stop completely at stop signs, and most of us exceed the speed limit from time to time.

Seems like ole Willie will look quite the martyr if he actually does real jail time.

Any bets on whether he will manage to smuggle in some of the good stuff if he ends up in the big house?

 

[Rustic23]

Yep, Wahoo, I have, and I paid the fine. However, if it meant I was going to spend a couple years in jail, you can bet very few of us would let that needle go over the speed limit!

The illegal drug trade is not just about the occasional pot smoker. Go to El Paso, and step across the border. There are areas of AZ that are not safe to go into. The drug production in Afghanistan is financing a portion of the arms and material used against US soldiers. All of this may be a good reason to legalize drugs. None of it is a good reason not to enforce the laws when they are found to be broken.

I also find the excuse of what it is going to cost somewhat lame. You could apply it to any legal case. Hey the guy only murdered his wife, he does not have a wife anymore, you have any idea what it is going to cost to keep in jail. Give me a break! We could use the money for better use somewhere else!

 

[ziggy29]

I think "it's the law" is just a lame justification because the laws are sometimes lame themselves. It can easily be invoked when one can't justify the punishment associated with the "crime" and even when there's no good rational or logical reason for the action.

If one has a good reason why the law should deal a harsh sentence for a "crime" they can articulate it. If they don't, they can hide behind "it's the law."

 

[haha]

There are two kinds of people-authoritarians, and others. Authoritarians like laws, and lots of 'em, and harsh sentences because "It's the law." Others prefer a little more judgment.

Authoritarians are often called social conservatives. This is a major differentiator about how people will feel about any number of issues.

Ha

 

[FUEGO]

I also find the excuse of what it is going to cost somewhat lame. You could apply it to any legal case. Hey the guy only murdered his wife, he does not have a wife anymore, you have any idea what it is going to cost to keep in jail. Give me a break! We could use the money for better use somewhere else!

I would not extend my argument to unlawful activity like murder. There are real victims in cases of murder.

As a taxpayer, I don't mind expenditures that dissuade others from murder. Not doing so would increase the odds I experience a little murder perpetrated on me from time to time. I am personally opposed to that.

If someone possesses pot in the privacy of their home (or RV) next door to me, I am not victimized by it.

 

[HFWR]

If someone possesses pot in the privacy of their home (or RV) next door to me, I am not victimized by it.

Unless they fail to share...

I agree that laws should be enforced as equally as possible. I also agree that we should tread lightly on victimless crimes, or, better yet, stay out of folks' personal lives without compelling reason...

YouTube - Traffic - Light Up Or Leave Me Alone

 

[Rustic23]

My point, Fuego, is you are victimized by it!

 

[Sarah in SC]

Unless they fail to share...

I agree that laws should be enforced as equally as possible. I also agree that we should tread lightly on victimless crimes, or, better yet, stay out of folks' personal lives without compelling reason...

+ 3 or 4

 

[HFWR]

My point, Fuego, is you are victimized by it!

Most pot smokers (imho, of course) would be happy to either grow their own, or support a family farm... No need to get it from elsewhere.

YouTube - The Lost Trailers - Gravy

YouTube - Steve Earle - Copperhead Road

 

[FUEGO]

My point, Fuego, is you are victimized by it!

I'm not sure I follow. My neighbor minding his own business next door and having a joint every once in a while or drinking a few beers in no manner deprives me of my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

In contrast, my neighbor coming over to give me a little afternoon murdering somewhat deprives me of my life, liberty, and/or pursuit of happiness. Surely you understand my willingness as a taxpayer to support law enforcement actions to deter the latter but not the former?

 

[ziggy29]

I'm not sure I follow. My neighbor minding his own business next door and having a joint every once in a while or drinking a few beers in no manner deprives me of my life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness.

In contrast, my neighbor coming over to give me a little afternoon murdering somewhat deprives me of my life, liberty, and/or pursuit of happiness. Surely you understand my willingness as a taxpayer to support law enforcement actions to deter the latter but not the former?

I think he's referring to contributing to the violent drug trade by smoking pot. Having said that, the laws of prohibition are a major reason the violence exists as it does. We don't see tobacco farmers or brewers killing each other to corner the market on cigs or beer. Well, at least where the booze is concerned, we haven't seen the violence in the liquor trade since Prohibition. Coincidence? IMO, definitely not.

 

[Rustic23]

Ziggy is right, and in one of my first post I said, it is fine with me if they legalize drug use. I have no problem doing away with the DEA, heck, I even think we could do with a lot less control of legal drugs. However, that is not the case, and as long as they are illegal, IMHO, the user is just as responsible for drug violence as the seller.

 

[FUEGO]

I think he's referring to contributing to the violent drug trade by smoking pot. Having said that, the laws of prohibition are a major reason the violence exists as it does. We don't see tobacco farmers or brewers killing each other to corner the market on cigs or beer. Well, at least where the booze is concerned, we haven't seen the violence in the liquor trade since Prohibition. Coincidence? IMO, definitely not.

Well, I remain ok with enforcing the laws prohibiting murder, robbery, assault, etc. Whether it is drug dealers killing each other or otherwise.

My neighbor smoking a joint doesn't kill people (well, other than the carcinogenic effect of marijuana smoke). Preventing businessmen (aka drug dealers) access to redress in a court of law for breach of contract forces them to exact justice in less civil manners.

 

[Orchidflower]

So Joe paid off someone, well that's news, and I guess that makes it OK for Willie? What sort of reasoning is that?

The difference the way I see it between old Joe Kennedy pushing his rot-gut hooch on the public--and thousands and thousands of folks who had no idea what was in that juice they were making--is that many folks could get hurt by it. Ole Willie was just lighting up one for himself and a few friends. Big difference to me.

Why should I care if Willie lights up a doobie in his own personal van? If I care about that then maybe I should start harrassing gays for sodomy with that logic. Sodomy is illegal still in many States...yes, illegal.


...And alcohol has been proven to be a much worse drug than pot ever could be.

 

[Nords]

So, I assume that those of you who believe the border patrol should have waved his bus through and ignored the odor coming from the bus is OK. That selective enforcement of the law is fine with you.

There's no need to get snippy about our opinions. They did what they had to do, but there's considerable leeway & discretion with what happens next. Selective enforcement is exactly what needs to happen next, and it's fine with me.

I also think there's no need to send a 77-year-old guy to a taxpayer-supported hotel. Make him spend a bunch of money on legal defense, plea bargain if he wants to, or humiliate and lecture him in court for a while, and make him pay for the whole show, and order him to drug rehab if deemed absolutely necessary. Otherwise give him Martha Stewart's ankle bracelet, send him home, and put the drug-enforcement effort somewhere more worthwhile like crystal meth or cocaine.

I've thrown a dozen sailors out of the military on drug charges. Earlier this year I spent two days of my life sitting in a courtroom to convict a guy of possession of a pipe containing 0.24 grams (yes, one twenty-fourth of one twenty-eighth of one ounce) of crystal meth. It took the legal system two years to get to that point, and I can only imagine the money spent on the salaries of the people who were called to testify on the arrest and the chain of custody, let alone on the defense.

By the end of the second day it had become apparent that the guy had seriously pissed off the police and the judicial system, although we jurors weren't made privy to the details, and this was all they had left to beat him up with. It was also apparent that he wasn't exactly a charter member of the Criminal Mastermind Club so I suspect some unfortunate series of events or a mistake almost let him off the hook.

Regardless we spent about an hour deliberating and convicting. I even had to volunteer to be foreman and nudge a few recalcitrants into choosing the appropriate vote. I've started up naval nuclear reactors with less paperwork than we went through in that jury room.

Then I got to go back into the courtroom and read the verdicts while his teenage daughter sobbed uncontrollably. It was kind of an interesting contrast to come home and have my teenage daughter ask "So, Dad, how was your day?"

I donated my juror pay to The Meth Project. The least Willie could do is throw a fund-raiser concert for a drug-rehab program.

 

[Orchidflower]

There's no need to get snippy about our opinions.

Obviously, we see things differently. I didn't think anyone here got "snippy."
Rustic23 is a great guy. As for me, I agree we disagree about this subject matter is all. Probably others feel the same way.

 

[RonBoyd]

Obviously, we see things differently. I didn't think anyone here got "snippy."
Rustic23 is a great guy. As for me, I agree we disagree about this subject matter is all. Probably others feel the same way.

Of course, I do. The "fun" has gone out of this thread... about thirty posts ago.

 

[Payin-the-Toll]

Willie must have some great after-concert parties. 6 ounces is really not a small amount of smoke. If he gets a cranky judge I'm afraid things might go bad for him. !Decriminalize Now!

 

[HFWR]

Sodomy is illegal still in many States...yes, illegal.

It's also worth noting that until 1962's Griswold v. Connecticut, contraceptives, including condoms, were illegal, at least in Connecticut. This case hinged on the infamous "right to privacy".

...put the drug-enforcement effort somewhere more worthwhile like crystal meth or cocaine.

In my view, there's nothing to recommend worrying about adults smoking pot. And nothing to recommend crystal meth, crack/rock cocaine, heroin, or sniffing glue. One has to wonder why we can't come up with better ways to spend our time, and moreso our kids time, than huffing paint... Still, prohibition doesn't seem to be working that well.

The least Willie could do is throw a fund-raiser concert for a drug-rehab program.

+1

 

[Skye]

And........IF "they" REALLY wanted to do away with a big source of drugs, wouldn't they just blow up the poppy fields, or spread some herbicide on them................but they don't........

 

[Texarkandy]

I've quit posting on this board, but still read it from time to time & can't help but comment on this one.

As a former Border Patrol Agent who has actually worked freeway checkpoints and made drug busts large & small, and as a non-pot smoker but advocate of legalization of marijuana (with some regulation), and as a Willie Nelson fan ....... I don't see how Willie (or his fans) should expect he be treated any different than anyone else passing through that checkpoint - and in my professional experience with the very professional Border Patrol, I'm guessing that's how they see it as well & I'm even further guessing that's how Willie himself sees it. There's nothing personal going on here - just equality under the law.

It's up to the judicial system to consider what's fair to do with a 77 year old singer caught with 6 ounces of marijuana - it's up to the Border Patrol Agent standing point to treat each person coming through equally, regardless of age or celebrity.

Perhaps though Willies experience as a celebrity will help bring the issue back to center stage for some national discussion as to how we ought to rationally modify our drug laws with regard to marijuana.

 

[Texarkandy]

There are two kinds of people-authoritarians, and others. Authoritarians like laws, and lots of 'em, and harsh sentences because "It's the law." Others prefer a little more judgment.

Authoritarians are often called social conservatives. This is a major differentiator about how people will feel about any number of issues.

Ha

If you are looking for an "authoritarian" then you need to first look in the mirror & then go down to the mall or town square & look in the faces of your fellow citizen voters, Ha.

It's up to the voters via their elected representatives to decide what the law will be - it's the duty of the individual law enforcement officer, government agency, & court to then apply it impartially.