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Old 11-30-2010, 03:49 PM   #41
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I think he's referring to contributing to the violent drug trade by smoking pot. Having said that, the laws of prohibition are a major reason the violence exists as it does. We don't see tobacco farmers or brewers killing each other to corner the market on cigs or beer. Well, at least where the booze is concerned, we haven't seen the violence in the liquor trade since Prohibition. Coincidence? IMO, definitely not.
Well, I remain ok with enforcing the laws prohibiting murder, robbery, assault, etc. Whether it is drug dealers killing each other or otherwise.

My neighbor smoking a joint doesn't kill people (well, other than the carcinogenic effect of marijuana smoke). Preventing businessmen (aka drug dealers) access to redress in a court of law for breach of contract forces them to exact justice in less civil manners.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:01 PM   #42
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So Joe paid off someone, well that's news, and I guess that makes it OK for Willie? What sort of reasoning is that?


The difference the way I see it between old Joe Kennedy pushing his rot-gut hooch on the public--and thousands and thousands of folks who had no idea what was in that juice they were making--is that many folks could get hurt by it. Ole Willie was just lighting up one for himself and a few friends. Big difference to me.

Why should I care if Willie lights up a doobie in his own personal van? If I care about that then maybe I should start harrassing gays for sodomy with that logic. Sodomy is illegal still in many States...yes, illegal.


...And alcohol has been proven to be a much worse drug than pot ever could be.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:10 PM   #43
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So, I assume that those of you who believe the border patrol should have waved his bus through and ignored the odor coming from the bus is OK. That selective enforcement of the law is fine with you.
There's no need to get snippy about our opinions. They did what they had to do, but there's considerable leeway & discretion with what happens next. Selective enforcement is exactly what needs to happen next, and it's fine with me.

I also think there's no need to send a 77-year-old guy to a taxpayer-supported hotel. Make him spend a bunch of money on legal defense, plea bargain if he wants to, or humiliate and lecture him in court for a while, and make him pay for the whole show, and order him to drug rehab if deemed absolutely necessary. Otherwise give him Martha Stewart's ankle bracelet, send him home, and put the drug-enforcement effort somewhere more worthwhile like crystal meth or cocaine.

I've thrown a dozen sailors out of the military on drug charges. Earlier this year I spent two days of my life sitting in a courtroom to convict a guy of possession of a pipe containing 0.24 grams (yes, one twenty-fourth of one twenty-eighth of one ounce) of crystal meth. It took the legal system two years to get to that point, and I can only imagine the money spent on the salaries of the people who were called to testify on the arrest and the chain of custody, let alone on the defense.

By the end of the second day it had become apparent that the guy had seriously pissed off the police and the judicial system, although we jurors weren't made privy to the details, and this was all they had left to beat him up with. It was also apparent that he wasn't exactly a charter member of the Criminal Mastermind Club so I suspect some unfortunate series of events or a mistake almost let him off the hook.

Regardless we spent about an hour deliberating and convicting. I even had to volunteer to be foreman and nudge a few recalcitrants into choosing the appropriate vote. I've started up naval nuclear reactors with less paperwork than we went through in that jury room.

Then I got to go back into the courtroom and read the verdicts while his teenage daughter sobbed uncontrollably. It was kind of an interesting contrast to come home and have my teenage daughter ask "So, Dad, how was your day?"

I donated my juror pay to The Meth Project. The least Willie could do is throw a fund-raiser concert for a drug-rehab program.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:19 PM   #44
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There's no need to get snippy about our opinions.

Obviously, we see things differently. I didn't think anyone here got "snippy."
Rustic23 is a great guy. As for me, I agree we disagree about this subject matter is all. Probably others feel the same way.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:37 PM   #45
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Obviously, we see things differently. I didn't think anyone here got "snippy."
Rustic23 is a great guy. As for me, I agree we disagree about this subject matter is all. Probably others feel the same way.
Of course, I do. The "fun" has gone out of this thread... about thirty posts ago.
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Old 11-30-2010, 04:59 PM   #46
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Willie must have some great after-concert parties. 6 ounces is really not a small amount of smoke. If he gets a cranky judge I'm afraid things might go bad for him. !Decriminalize Now!
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Old 11-30-2010, 06:44 PM   #47
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Sodomy is illegal still in many States...yes, illegal.
It's also worth noting that until 1962's Griswold v. Connecticut, contraceptives, including condoms, were illegal, at least in Connecticut. This case hinged on the infamous "right to privacy".


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...put the drug-enforcement effort somewhere more worthwhile like crystal meth or cocaine.
In my view, there's nothing to recommend worrying about adults smoking pot. And nothing to recommend crystal meth, crack/rock cocaine, heroin, or sniffing glue. One has to wonder why we can't come up with better ways to spend our time, and moreso our kids time, than huffing paint... Still, prohibition doesn't seem to be working that well.

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The least Willie could do is throw a fund-raiser concert for a drug-rehab program.
+1
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:05 PM   #48
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And........IF "they" REALLY wanted to do away with a big source of drugs, wouldn't they just blow up the poppy fields, or spread some herbicide on them................but they don't........
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Old 12-01-2010, 12:25 AM   #49
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I've quit posting on this board, but still read it from time to time & can't help but comment on this one.

As a former Border Patrol Agent who has actually worked freeway checkpoints and made drug busts large & small, and as a non-pot smoker but advocate of legalization of marijuana (with some regulation), and as a Willie Nelson fan ....... I don't see how Willie (or his fans) should expect he be treated any different than anyone else passing through that checkpoint - and in my professional experience with the very professional Border Patrol, I'm guessing that's how they see it as well & I'm even further guessing that's how Willie himself sees it. There's nothing personal going on here - just equality under the law.

It's up to the judicial system to consider what's fair to do with a 77 year old singer caught with 6 ounces of marijuana - it's up to the Border Patrol Agent standing point to treat each person coming through equally, regardless of age or celebrity.

Perhaps though Willies experience as a celebrity will help bring the issue back to center stage for some national discussion as to how we ought to rationally modify our drug laws with regard to marijuana.
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Old 12-01-2010, 01:04 AM   #50
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There are two kinds of people-authoritarians, and others. Authoritarians like laws, and lots of 'em, and harsh sentences because "It's the law." Others prefer a little more judgment.

Authoritarians are often called social conservatives. This is a major differentiator about how people will feel about any number of issues.

Ha
If you are looking for an "authoritarian" then you need to first look in the mirror & then go down to the mall or town square & look in the faces of your fellow citizen voters, Ha.

It's up to the voters via their elected representatives to decide what the law will be - it's the duty of the individual law enforcement officer, government agency, & court to then apply it impartially.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:24 AM   #51
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Old Willie and his crew were pretty stupid to have lit up just before crossing the border, the smell is what got the boarder officers attention. That being said there are 16M regular pot smokers in the US. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to better use then housing pot smokers?
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Old 12-01-2010, 06:07 AM   #52
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I've quit posting on this board, ...
And this Post points out how sad that is. Great post. Thank you.
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Old 12-01-2010, 09:08 AM   #53
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If you are looking for an "authoritarian" then you need to first look in the mirror & then go down to the mall or town square & look in the faces of your fellow citizen voters, Ha.

It's up to the voters via their elected representatives to decide what the law will be - it's the duty of the individual law enforcement officer, government agency, & court to then apply it impartially.
In Ha's defense, he was likely talking about busybodies trying to control other folks' lives, often through laws...

As for the Border Patrol, they're in a damned if you do situation. Bust him, people bitch about busting a harmless old musician. Let him slide, and it's preferential treatment for a celebrity...
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:36 PM   #54
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I'm all for equality under the law...in fact, totally. I'm just against wasting my tax dollars busting a private citizen smoking a doobie in his personal van and harming noone but his own health and those in the van. Now, if anyone in the van was selling the stuff or importing gobs of pounds then we have a different situation.

It's the private citizen in his personal van using his personal stash for his personal use only that bothers me. If people want to harm their own health they should be allowed to I think. This is the line the government constantly wants to cross that irritates many.

But celebrities are no better than John and Jane Doe who live next door to you when laws are concerned...it's just the law can traipse over boundaries too often.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:59 PM   #55
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OrchidFlower,
Recently, a young couple were jet skiing on a lake on the Texas Mexico border. Drug dealers shot the husband in the head! Now Willie was just doing his thing in his van, but he contributed to that death, IMO. Those that bought booze during prohibition, contributed to the profit of the gangster element that controlled the booze. While one may like to think their actions are not hurting anyone but themselves, they are wrong. Legalize it or obey the law. Over 4,000 people in Mexico have been killed by drug gangs. These would not exist if the demand in the U.S. was not there, and the demand would not be there if it was not tolerated by good people.
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Old 12-01-2010, 03:47 PM   #56
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Willie Nelson kills people? What's next? Cats sleeping with dogs?
Jeez, light one up and chill, dude.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:06 PM   #57
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Old Willie and his crew were pretty stupid to have lit up just before crossing the border, the smell is what got the boarder officers attention. That being said there are 16M regular pot smokers in the US. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to better use then housing pot smokers?
Report is that he got popped at the border patrol check station on I10 in Sierra Blanca Texas coming back from thanksgiving in California. That's border patrol and looks like it's maybe 15-20 miles from the Mexico border as the crow flies. In line with the new 100 mile jurisdiction claimed by our government for border patrol.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:19 PM   #58
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OrchidFlower,
Recently, a young couple were jet skiing on a lake on the Texas Mexico border. Drug dealers shot the husband in the head! Now Willie was just doing his thing in his van, but he contributed to that death, IMO. Those that bought booze during prohibition, contributed to the profit of the gangster element that controlled the booze. While one may like to think their actions are not hurting anyone but themselves, they are wrong. Legalize it or obey the law. Over 4,000 people in Mexico have been killed by drug gangs. These would not exist if the demand in the U.S. was not there, and the demand would not be there if it was not tolerated by good people.
That was unnecessarily harsh. Drunk drivers and lung cancer kill many more people. So do pharmaceuticals and hospital care. But we don't blame medical schools, tobacco farmers or distillers. Willie Nelson broke the law but his marajuana use does not support or encourage violence.

There are many laws, federal and state, that do not represent the views of the majority of citizens but the process to soften or eliminate them is onerous or impossible. Drug laws, especially those regarding use, fall into this category.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #59
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OrchidFlower,
Recently, a young couple were jet skiing on a lake on the Texas Mexico border. Drug dealers shot the husband in the head! Now Willie was just doing his thing in his van, but he contributed to that death, IMO. Those that bought booze during prohibition, contributed to the profit of the gangster element that controlled the booze. While one may like to think their actions are not hurting anyone but themselves, they are wrong. Legalize it or obey the law. Over 4,000 people in Mexico have been killed by drug gangs. These would not exist if the demand in the U.S. was not there, and the demand would not be there if it was not tolerated by good people.
So by buying/smoking pot that was in all probability grown in California or British Columbia, Willie contributed to the profits made by Mexicans? How did that happen?
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:29 PM   #60
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We will agree to disagree. The violent drug trade would not exist without the user, and it appears a majority of CA voters seem to think the law should still be in place even if you don't.

And, yes, if all pot was home grown, and there was no illicit trade, then Willie and those that think they are doing no harm by smoking pot would most likely be right. So if it soothes your conscious to grow you own, be my guest. But the kid next door, that thinks it is cool that his neighbor is a pot head, and buys his, is contributing to drug violence. We are great at rationalizing, and IMO that is exactly what is happening.

Edit: Ciudad Juarez is considered the most dangerous city in the world! and it's not because of the drinking water!
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