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Old 12-07-2008, 04:05 AM   #21
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OK, I've bit my lip enough and, as a 'fellow' Australian, I feel I have both the life and long-term local cultural experience to comment.

ausaus24, you are coming across as a typical 'I want it now because I deserve it' gen-Y'er! Get a grip sport, you are fresh out of the oven, you know nothing about 'life' other than what you have been 'taught' through your 'training'. Fact is, life ain't like that, deal with it and get used to it!

Those who are in policy-making positions, nomatter where in the world or what industry/sphere-of-influence, have far more life-experience than you. In fact, they have actually experienced some life. OTOH, you have experienced next to diddly-squat. As a somewhat 'leathery' member of society, well into my fifth decade, I'm rather glad that those of your life-experience are not in a position to influence 'policy' in any sphere, at least not until your ears are completely dry, especially in the non-frontal regions.

My advice is (completely gratuitous and no doubt entirely ignorable because of my age), buckle down, take what is on offer, learn from it and use it to spring-board yourself to the next level. But be under no doubt, your current worth to policy-making, indeed society in general, is pretty much insignificant!

Your 'superiors' are not your 'superiors' because of the snob-values, it's because they are, well, superior to you, in both knowledge and experience. A somewhat alien concept I gather, but non-the-less true, they actually know more than you do!

Gee, I enjoyed getting that off my chest

p.s. ausaus24 - using Australian-specific acronyms on a US-based forum, is bound to have the majority of posters scratching their heads or frantically using Google. Example - APS (Australian Public Service) is meaningless to those not in the APS!
Yeah I understand that mbooth, you don't need to tell me twice that I know nothing which is essentially why I am here asking for advice.

The assumption I made, which was what I thought everyone would understand, is that I don't expect to be making any policy decisions. I was hoping to be doing the house keeping within a policy area. Which is fine. I didn't understand that it was an area specifically for the elite. I thought they would be large departments where a big body of research, drafting, briefs and other assorted work would be done. I didn't realise it was only for a few people. I assumed I'd be kicking it so to speak, in one of those area's. Which is how I think they do it, all the assistants are virtually trainee's. These things you just don't know unless you've got someone who can tell you. So I came here asking.

I used to work in retail with a lot of old blokes and in a warehouse too. I don't think any of them would ever have come at me and said I didn't know how to knuckle down because I was right there beside them kicking the same it. These were retired tradies and people who had seen a lot of time in the world. They didn't attack my generation..... they'd come up to me and tell me that I have to get out, that there was no future, there are a lot of kids around my age or a bit older who do have no future. How is a man and a woman supposed to afford a house on $30,000 a year ?

I disagree that hard work will get you where you want to go. You need to work hard but you also need to know what you are doing. And I really do appreciate your input, otherwise whywould I come to a retirement forum to ask for advice ? So I can hear from a lot of older people who have seen and done it all before.
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Old 12-07-2008, 04:52 AM   #22
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ausaus24

not sure what your response actually was getting at.

Your original posts were suggesting that 'the world is unfair'......can't disagree with that, it is.

Your follow-up posts tend to suggest that your view is that 'education' grants you some 'special' entry to positions of influence....it don't, in fact it doesn't grant you any special licence at all, in anything .....can you accept that?

Grab the opportunities that are presented to you in your current circumstances, they are all you have! Having a whinge about things that don't come your way is just plain having a whinge....nothing more or less.

aus24, life really is yours for the taking, whatever is presented to you is whatever is presented to you! Take it, don't take it, there is no 'try' (with due props to Master Yoda )....but it is not not anybody else's 'fault', it's just the way it is.
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Old 12-07-2008, 05:40 AM   #23
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ausaus24

not sure what your response actually was getting at.

Your original posts were suggesting that 'the world is unfair'......can't disagree with that, it is.

Your follow-up posts tend to suggest that your view is that 'education' grants you some 'special' entry to positions of influence....it don't, in fact it doesn't grant you any special licence at all, in anything .....can you accept that?

Grab the opportunities that are presented to you in your current circumstances, they are all you have! Having a whinge about things that don't come your way is just plain having a whinge....nothing more or less.

aus24, life really is yours for the taking, whatever is presented to you is whatever is presented to you! Take it, don't take it, there is no 'try' (with due props to Master Yoda )....but it is not not anybody else's 'fault', it's just the way it is.
No that is all correct, I was just hoping to clarify a few things. I'm usually the one to get labeled as anti education in these sort of conversations. I think you're right, I should just knuckle down.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:43 AM   #24
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I should just knuckle down.
Precisely.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:00 PM   #25
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Random hard work is not guaranteed to get you what you want. In that you are correct. However hard work in a rotating assignment entry program is likely to get you noticed. Why do you think they have those programs? Further once you are "inside" in the rotation program, you can go find the small corp of folks doing exactly what you want and volunteer to help them too. That hard work will pay off hugely.

If all else fails, you are back to your previous plan of going back to school and this job disappears off the end of your resume. No harm no foul. But if you really do make the most of it, these are the kinds of programs that are used to find the true rising stars and get them into senior positions beyond their years.

PS They also often filter for positive attitude. You had best check and keep most of the negativity to yourself. I'm taking a leap of faith to continue to contribute positive suggestions here, but I'm pretty turned off by your posts. If that comes through in person you will likely have a problem advancing.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:11 PM   #26
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PS They also often filter for positive attitude. You had best check and keep most of the negativity to yourself.
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If that comes through in person you will likely have a problem advancing.
How very true!
I see this 'tude a lot in Gen Y. They haven't seen the depths of a recession yet, poor dears!
But they will.
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Old 12-07-2008, 01:23 PM   #27
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Random hard work is not guaranteed to get you what you want. In that you are correct. However hard work in a rotating assignment entry program is likely to get you noticed....
Other things that got me noticed were standing up for myself when, as OP said "I was treated like a piece of crap" and later standing up for my trainee who was horribly abused. I let my interests show, it's hard to believe now, as I appear to be computer-illiterate, but in the '80s I got ahold of every computer manual I could find and devoured it. Personnel noticed and tried to find relevant jobs for me. I also found it helpful to let my cultural interests show which made for good water cooler talk and I believe that is what got me my last and best job.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:29 PM   #28
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Random hard work is not guaranteed to get you what you want. In that you are correct. However hard work in a rotating assignment entry program is likely to get you noticed. Why do you think they have those programs? Further once you are "inside" in the rotation program, you can go find the small corp of folks doing exactly what you want and volunteer to help them too. That hard work will pay off hugely.

If all else fails, you are back to your previous plan of going back to school and this job disappears off the end of your resume. No harm no foul. But if you really do make the most of it, these are the kinds of programs that are used to find the true rising stars and get them into senior positions beyond their years.

PS They also often filter for positive attitude. You had best check and keep most of the negativity to yourself. I'm taking a leap of faith to continue to contribute positive suggestions here, but I'm pretty turned off by your posts. If that comes through in person you will likely have a problem advancing.
I don't know sometimes they just put you and that's where you stay to my knowledge. Advancing in the admin is not likely to get you the skills to advance to and investigative or research officer position. There will be heaps of other people that want the same job who are better qualified so you never will have a shot. You end up stuck. That is how I've been told it works.

So I can either accept what could be a lower position and the fact I will probably be there forever or go back to school. I'll study off campus and eventually go back full time in anycase. But I dunno if it is possible to move up or not.

Its not a matter of me not wanting to work hard it is a matter of could I do better by making a different decision. Unfortunately people do get granted better positions because of their level of education which is the reality I face. This is not just a job this is the start of a career. I've worked bad jobs before I got nothing against them. This has got nothing to do with me not wanting to get my hands dirty. I'm trying to make sure I don't completely sabotage my future ambitions.
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Old 12-07-2008, 07:42 PM   #29
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Very easy to make a big impression if you far outclass the position. Diamond in the dung as it were.
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Old 12-07-2008, 10:53 PM   #30
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You are exactly right. Whatever position you take will let you work as hard as you want and never advance you. We are all just planning to take advantage and keep you down. Better go back to school and get some more degrees. Only when you have enough schooling will the world recognize the wisdom of giving you what you want without you having to work for it. Until then, we are all against giving you what you think you deserve. While you are at it, please stay a long time and get a couple extra degrees.
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Old 12-07-2008, 11:01 PM   #31
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You are exactly right. Whatever position you take will let you work as hard as you want and never advance you. We are all just planning to take advantage and keep you down. Better go back to school and get some more degrees. Only when you have enough schooling will the world recognize the wisdom of giving you what you want without you having to work for it. Until then, we are all against giving you what you think you deserve. While you are at it, please stay a long time and get a couple extra degrees.
Well it has been suggested by someone not on this forum who has had many years experience in the public service that it might be a better idea to go back to school and get a further qualification so that I can improve my ranking on the merit list. See I am trying to think about it logically in examining the skills I might acquire against the skills i will need in my future job. You guys are depending on the idea that a person should work hard.
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Old 12-08-2008, 12:07 AM   #32
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i don't understand why people are being so snotty with this guy. After all, he does want to work. We ahve had plenty of young people with the steriling ambition to get some money and retire as soon as possible.

I haven't read the thread closely enough to figure it out, but if I werre OP I would get away from this forum, which is clearly most interested in running him down.

As to old people dissing genY, they are nuts. GenY has faced strong competition from the get-go, something many of us older boomers and pre-boomers never did. Don't forget, GenY, at least in America is currently fighting 2 wars, paying exhorbitant school tuition, and all the while trying to deal with the fat boomer butts sitting on their heads.

Ha
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:27 AM   #33
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Ausaus, I looked back read your first post on this forum posted last December (After some general advice, non retirement related.). You were interested in people's advice on whether you should get an engineering degree, as you had studied economics and "did poorly" (your words).

Given that (and considering you chose not to pursue the engineering degree), if I were you I would be very very grateful to have been offered the program you are in. I would stay with it at least a year or two to see how it develops and how I developed within it. You might find you love some area within the program that is only peripherally related to your background, and then you could build on that with further study.

Good luck to you--your supervisors will notice your hard work!
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:38 AM   #34
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Good luck to you--your supervisors will notice your hard work!
And reward you with even more work...
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