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Old 09-22-2007, 01:39 AM   #61
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God, please bless this plastic spork so that it doesn't break and snap off as I'm trying to cut this honey-baked ham.
Mine broke while spearing the green beans. Nor did I say a pre-meal prayer.

Divine intervention? Or just another corporate lean initiative?
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:31 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by eridanus View Post
Jesus said it was a private matter! You're making Jesus cry.

(If I cared enough, I'd even quote the scripture about it.)
Here it is.
Quote:
Matthew 6:5-7
6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
But only if you take the Bible literally.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:47 AM   #63
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I have had to sit through "invocations" and group-led prayer at graduation ceremonies at state-supported schools, by chaplains at military events where not being present would have been a ''missing movement" offense, by bosses both at large luncheons and at small private business lunches, I have been in the stands at sports events many times where prayer was invoked, some of those at forced high school events, etc etc etc

Even before my own personal religious beliefs were fully formed, I had a sense that making everyone who attended these conform to someone else's imposition of their own religious views and practices was wrong, at the very least at the personal rudeness level.

Did I ever make a big deal out of it? Nope. But that doesn't make it right, especially if it is a subtle way of testing whether you are willing to be "one of us" or not -- people take note of how enthusiastic or willing you are, and if you decide to overtly not bow head, close your eyes, repeat the words from well-oiled memory or not, then they may use that in subtle forms of discrimination afterwards, that they themselves may not even be aware of or able to control.

I once accidentally found out one guy I worked with was an avid practicing nudist, in terms of organized weekend activities, etc. Somehow in casual conversation he was trying to encourage and explain his activities to someone, and I overheard. I gotta tell you, I never knowingly changed the work relationship on purpose, or thought I had anything against what people do outside of work, but I was never able to shake that association with "why would someone do that?" [subtle questioning of his judgment based on my own cultural bias, right?] every time I saw him. And yet in France, it's no big deal, and I certainly like nudity in my own home at the 'appropriate' time <smile>... But I did make sure I was never alone with the guy in case he was thinking of 'recruiting' new nudists for the beach club - that's a pitch I really did not want to sit through... <laugh>...
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:45 AM   #64
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Bless this and bless that bless your heart I hear all the time down south here in the states. Then they go out and get drunk, cheat on their wives etc. Its called hypocracy.
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Old 09-22-2007, 08:46 AM   #65
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I am surprised at all the responses that basically say it is OK for the manager to bless the food.

In my mind the issue is that all employess should be provided with a work enviorment where they are valued based upon their work performance only - not their religious or other affiliation.

This concept is similar to what has been established in law in other areas. It is not allowed to have pornography, a sexist or raciest atmosphere in the office.

An employee have to be subjected to someone elses religion while at work.

The work envoirment at work should be inclusive not exclusive.
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Old 09-22-2007, 09:32 AM   #66
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OK, since it's been asked:

No, this is not a religious organization. I happen to also have worked for different company in the past that was indeed a religious organization. They had me sign an acknowledgement that it was a religious company and their mission was guided by that. They had a morning prayer over the PA system, which I had absolutely no problem with. Everyone who worked there knew it was part of the company's mission to be Christian faith-based and had agreed to be part of that. We all had been given a choice to not be a part of this mission upon time of hire.

This company did not have me sign anything saying they are religious-based.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:59 PM   #67
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It's not rude and insensitive for anyone to profess their faith in front of the world, including at the workplace;
I don't know much about world religions, but it seems that the fact that almost everyplace is full of shrines, churches, cathedrals, mosques etc. suggest the releigion is not supposed to be accomplished in the bathroom. And as regards Christianity, proselytizing is part of the charge given by Jesus to His followers. You are not supposed to be quiet about your religion.

I think as part of personal development we should work on limiting what offends us to the likes of murder and rape, and not worry too much about releigious practices. Even if the practitioners have downscale accents.

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Old 09-22-2007, 02:04 PM   #68
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I don't know much about world religions, but it seems that the fact that almost everyplace is full of shrines, churches, cathedrals, mosques etc. suggest the releigion is not supposed to be accomplished in the bathroom. And as regards Christianity, proselytizing is part of the charge given by Jesus to His followers. You are not supposed to be quiet about your religion.

I think as part of personal development we should work on limiting what offends us to the likes of murder and rape, and not worry too much about releigious practices. Even if the practitioners have downscale accents.

Ha
Well, true, praying is not supposed to occur in the bathroom, but in the closet, in secret. Or maybe your words trump Jesus' words?

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.


I agree about being offended at religious practices. It's no big deal. Of course, I also know that many upstanding Christians would be offended if a Jew prayed about waiting for the Messiah, or a Muslim mentioned Mohammed as God's #1 prophet. In other words, we're all tolerant until someone disagrees with us.
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:03 PM   #69
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LOL!

Well, I see your point. I guess Jesus was into the closet after all. I thought that all the opprobrium heaped on Peter's head for failing to speak out about his faith when that cock was crowing pretty well showed that you were supposed to be forthright about this faith business.

BTW, I am not into any of this myself, but I am definitely not offended by others religiosity. I think that something that has such great appeal to so many people for so long must be pretty strong. Also, I think that our modern secular culture is about used up, so who knows from what quarter a new direction might come?

Ha
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:00 PM   #70
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Jesus said it was a private matter! You're making Jesus cry.

(If I cared enough, I'd even quote the scripture about it.)


I've never seen this at a work function in the south, but I do live in a left-leaning city. When it happens at weddings or other social settings, I, too, keep my head up and meet the eyes of the other heathens.
So Jesus actually told you I'm making Him cry -- how else would you know I've fallen so short of his teachings and made him cry! I'm glad you have a direct line of communication with Jesus, something I've never had myself.


Religion has never been a private matter throughout our entire civilization. Prayer, itself, for many is a private matter, though most non-Christian faiths have group and public prayer. And I hope you don't feel too bad when all of us heathens in this country proclaim our faith in God during our National Day of Prayer and Thanksgiving, which comes every 4th week in November.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:13 PM   #71
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So Jesus actually told you I'm making Him cry -- how else would you know I've fallen so short of his teachings and made him cry! I'm glad you have a direct line of communication with Jesus, something I've never had myself.
Yes, he did. We were hanging around having a beer and he started to bawl. He's pretty sensitive, Jesus is. I asked him, "Yo, dawg, what up?" He then gave me the full scoop. I try to be there for him, but I hate it when he makes my shirt all wet with his tears.
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:28 PM   #72
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Well, true, praying is not supposed to occur in the bathroom, but in the closet, in secret. Or maybe your words trump Jesus' words?

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

You should read the scriptures more carefully before you represent the scriptures as supporting your view. Getting back to the precise issue here, we're talking about "Grace" being said before sitting down and eating food; a simple blessing of the food. If you think this would make Jesus cry or is against his teachings, then Jesus himself wasn't faithful to his own practice since he "blessed" the food in his most significant public sermon when he fed a large multitude of people with five loaves of bread and two fish (Mark 6:41;Matthew 14:19;Luke 9:16;John 6:11). Jesus, if you read the scriptures, did say grace before he fed the masses!
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Old 09-22-2007, 04:35 PM   #73
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You should read the scriptures more carefully before you represent the scriptures as supporting your view
Of course my reading of the scriptures is more correct than yours. What crazy religious sect do you follow, anyway?


Ok, enough tweaking your nose. I get the feeling you're becoming offended....
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:22 PM   #74
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Of course my reading of the scriptures is more correct than yours. What crazy religious sect do you follow, anyway?


Ok, enough tweaking your nose. I get the feeling you're becoming offended....
Not offended at all by your remarks. I've had my chain pulled by many and it never upsets me.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:24 PM   #75
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we're talking about "Grace" being said before sitting down and eating food; a simple blessing of the food. If you think this would make Jesus cry or is against his teachings, then Jesus himself wasn't faithful to his own practice since he "blessed" the food in his most significant public sermon
i was going to simply write that this is starting to bother me. but while i'm at it i might point out that i have yet to see anyone here actually quote the so-called jesus. rather what you all quote are interpretations and commentary on what supposedly was said or done. basically, we're not getting quotes here; all we are getting is hearsay.

but to a less frivolous point, is there some difference between god (assuming that jesus and god are supposedly the same) and man offering a blessing? how lovely that god might bless your fish, but how arrogant that man might presume authority to extend god's blessings.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:25 PM   #76
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funny thing is you'd have to hold your hand over a bible to testify in court...

Ahh.... nope... at least here there were not bible in court..
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:36 PM   #77
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It's not rude and insensitive for anyone to profess their faith in front of the world, including at the workplace; it's rude and insensitive for you to demand that they not do that -- a little tolerance would be nice; maybe, next time when it's Ash Wednesday, you ought to tell all those Catholics to wipe away their forehead markings when they come back to work after noon-time service!
Chris C, you have this narrow few that YOUR religion is the one that is being done to everybody...

I remember going to one of those controversial movies that the religious people did not like.. and afterwards there were a few religious professors to discuss the movie... and both of them said religion should not be done in the public places....

There was a teacher that argued with them that a prayer should be said in class and that it was 'needed' since all the kids were so bad... one of the professors asked 'What is the person giving the prayer was a Wican?'... she said that they should not be able to give a prayer... WHY?? Because SHE is intolerant of others views... only HER view should be used for prayer..

So my question to you.. what if it was a Jewish prayer, or a WICAN prayer or a DEVIL WORSHIPER prayer Are these all not valid religious beliefs that we should be able to force on others
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:22 PM   #78
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Chris C, you have this narrow few that YOUR religion is the one that is being done to everybody...

I remember going to one of those controversial movies that the religious people did not like.. and afterwards there were a few religious professors to discuss the movie... and both of them said religion should not be done in the public places....

There was a teacher that argued with them that a prayer should be said in class and that it was 'needed' since all the kids were so bad... one of the professors asked 'What is the person giving the prayer was a Wican?'... she said that they should not be able to give a prayer... WHY?? Because SHE is intolerant of others views... only HER view should be used for prayer..

So my question to you.. what if it was a Jewish prayer, or a WICAN prayer or a DEVIL WORSHIPER prayer Are these all not valid religious beliefs that we should be able to force on others
Texas Proud, you assume the worse in me, don't you? I'm not a religious zealot -- I'm actually quite agnostic in my beliefs though I have been known to attend and worship once in a while in a church setting. I grew up in an religiously diverse neighborhood in Brooklyn, NY where I became familiar with the practices of Hasidic Jews, Muslims and Catholics. I am a lapsed Catholic myself who preferred the fellowship of a small Baptist Church in rural Virginia. I don't preach any faith or religious viewpoint.

I don't presume my faith is correct for anyone except myself. And my children have their own stated religious views.

I challenge you to find anything in my posts that presumes that I am imposing my faith on anyone!
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:28 PM   #79
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IMHO blessing the food is a religious act, but pausing for a few moments before partaking of a meal to silently give thanks for the earth's bounty would not.

Here is my suggestion: Anonymously ask HR to write a script for managers to use in such circumstances, one that reflects the diversity of religious beliefs in the workforce (including none). Those whose beliefs dictate a prayer before meals would be accommodated, and those who have other practices are as well.

A couple years ago I attended a holiday party at USDOL at an office in a northern state. They had a new manager who grew up in the south. He led a Protestant Christian prayer before the start of the meal, completely disregarding the Buddhist and a Shinto in his staff. Evidently the manager was a nice guy because no uproar ensued, but the manager didn't last a year... he just couldn't adjust to the change in culture.
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Old 09-22-2007, 07:30 PM   #80
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Moderators, feel free to remove this thread if you feel it is too controversial...

Yesterday I attended a work lunch. The CEO was present. After our entrees arrived, someone suggested the food be blessed. The CEO then offerred a prayer.

OK, so I am from the north, transplanted here in the deep South. This just would NEVER happen in the north. I just feel it is wrong to assume everyone has the same beliefs and/or impose your beliefs upon them, especially in a work situation. It's not that I'm not religious. However, what if I weren't? What if I was an aetheist, agnostic, or some other religion that wasn't Christian?

I feel there should be a separation of church and work, and that just isn't happenning here at all.
So you should impose your beliefs on them, not allow them to pray? I mean best case scenario here God may bless your food, worst case scenario, it means nothing so why even worry about it?
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