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Old 09-24-2007, 11:59 AM   #101
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Wait - are we talking lesbians or dudes in that gay strip club?

(I'd be in favor of the lesbians of the lipstick variety, personally)
Ugly guys parading on stage. Or maybe lunch could be held at one of those bars with the windows blacked out.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #102
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Ugly guys parading on stage. Or maybe lunch could be held at one of those bars with the windows blacked out.
This is the ER forum, a group of budget-conscious individuals. Gotta ask, is the lunch buffet free?
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:29 PM   #103
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In my mind the issue is that all employess should be provided with a work enviorment where they are valued based upon their work performance only - not their religious or other affiliation.

This concept is similar to what has been established in law in other areas. It is not allowed to have pornography, a sexist or raciest atmosphere in the office.
...
The work envoirment at work should be inclusive not exclusive.
Oh, Dex, such a place would be Heaven, indeed!
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:04 PM   #104
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Reading through all this was quite a surprise to me. I live in the South but am not of the Christian persuasion. I work (supervise) a local government department, 15 of us all together. We are much of a family and have a potluck lunch about quarterly. We've been doing this for 10-15 years.

We have a blessing of the food and each time we do it. Sometimes we give thanks for having safely survived another hurricane season. The work we do is often hazardous, so sometimes we give thanks that no one got hurt since the last time.

We were joined by a Muslim a few years back. So we stopped doing the blessing as "Christian" and began referring simply to God. No big deal.

As I said above, I'm not much Christian. But this is what the people that work for me like to do - and we do it.

Reading through all this, it makes me happy that I'll never know many of you... any closer than this screen & keyboard. Your intolerance is sort of breathtaking.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:13 PM   #105
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Yes, he did. We were hanging around having a beer and he started to bawl. He's pretty sensitive, Jesus is. I asked him, "Yo, dawg, what up?" He then gave me the full scoop. I try to be there for him, but I hate it when he makes my shirt all wet with his tears.

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Old 09-24-2007, 01:14 PM   #106
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Joss, thanks for providing an explanation of just how I feel, too. Well said indeed.
Makes me proud to be a Southerner!

And let's hope we get through another hurricane season unscathed. It has been 18 years since Hugo hit Charleston. We're waiting for another big 'un.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:16 PM   #107
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We were joined by a Muslim a few years back. So we stopped doing the blessing as "Christian" and began referring simply to God. No big deal.
I know such things don't exist south of the Mason-Dixon line, but what would you have done if an Atheist joined your group?
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:34 PM   #108
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I know such things don't exist south of the Mason-Dixon line, but what would you have done if an Atheist joined your group?
I, for one, keep it in the closet.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:36 PM   #109
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I, for one, keep it in the closet.
Ditto. But we are working in the realm of thought experiment.

Or what if a Wiccan joined the department?
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:46 PM   #110
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Ditto. But we are working in the realm of thought experiment....
Ah! Ha! I'll have to give this some thought. A local talk show host here is fond of describing "fundamentalists" as people who upon entering their church, "check their brains at the door and pick up their crayons." I won't even attempt to get into thinking about the relation of faith to thought.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:57 PM   #111
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Nope, I think you got it all wrong again! This was posted as a private function -- a company holding a lunch -- where an employee requested the CEO to bless the food. No one was being coerced into a forced prayer to acknowledge anything, and as I've said all along we don't know the exact circumstances and culture of the company.


Yep, you're pretty much intolerant. Not confused, at all, about your view.

A workplace, even a private workplace, has a public element. If an employer in a private workplace says, however indirectly, "if you have sex with me, it will further your career" this is harassment and illegal.

If you cannot see how a similar "quid pro quo" could not be present regarding religion (especially since you adamantly assert your right to proselytize), then I maintain that you seem to have difficulty putting yourself into the potential quandary of the infidel sinner. It's very easy to move to "Fred over there doesn't seem to share our 'fellowship.' I'm not sure he's saved. I don't know if I trust him with more responsibility with the firm. I feel much more comfortable with Delbert, there. He's washed in the blood of the lamb like me." Therefore, the condemned infidel is forced to either pretend to be something he is not to protect his career, or to be seen as "not belonging." Either option is uncomfortable in and some sense can constitute a "hostile work environment." It is certainly not of the same gravity as sexual harassment, and not worth statutory protection, IMO, but it has some of the same elements.

The original poster clearly was discomfited by the situation, therefore I made a "wild" assumption what his employer was not the "Association of Baptist Ministers" or some such.

I have asserted that in many situations it is inappropriate and, yes, rude, to thrust your religion on other people. IMO, you seem incapable or, more likely, unwilling to discern these situations.

Every opportunity you get, you choose to call me "intolerant." I have not suggested that obnoxious proselytizers be beat up, censored, quashed, or shouted down. I have merely suggested that they lack manners.

Consequently, IMO, due to your insistence on calling me intolerant every chance you get, I find your behavior very troll-like. I have nothing more to say to you.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:01 PM   #112
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Reading through all this was quite a surprise to me. I live in the South but am not of the Christian persuasion. I work (supervise) a local government department, 15 of us all together. We are much of a family and have a potluck lunch about quarterly. We've been doing this for 10-15 years.

We have a blessing of the food and each time we do it. Sometimes we give thanks for having safely survived another hurricane season. The work we do is often hazardous, so sometimes we give thanks that no one got hurt since the last time.

We were joined by a Muslim a few years back. So we stopped doing the blessing as "Christian" and began referring simply to God. No big deal.

As I said above, I'm not much Christian. But this is what the people that work for me like to do - and we do it.

Reading through all this, it makes me happy that I'll never know many of you... any closer than this screen & keyboard. Your intolerance is sort of breathtaking.

I really don't care if they do it or not... but I see a lot of people say that someone who objects is intolerant, but that someone who insists on saying grace is not intollerant. And it is why I ask what if it was a witch or devil worshiper... you say 'God', some want to say something else... so would you be tollerant if there had a 'Devil chant' prior to eating? Most people just don't answer the question because they think it is ridiculous, but that is my point... INSISTING on saying grace out loud is the intollerant view... do a moment of silence so each person can say their grace in whatever belief they have... and if you don't believe, just dive in and start to eat...
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:04 PM   #113
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I really don't care if they do it or not... but I see a lot of people say that someone who objects is intolerant, but that someone who insists on saying grace is not intollerant. And it is why I ask what if it was a witch or devil worshiper... you say 'God', some want to say something else... so would you be tollerant if there had a 'Devil chant' prior to eating? Most people just don't answer the question because they think it is ridiculous, but that is my point... INSISTING on saying grace out loud is the intollerant view... do a moment of silence so each person can say their grace in whatever belief they have... and if you don't believe, just dive in and start to eat...
Heh, what if a hindu joined your department? "God" is just fine, but which one?
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:09 PM   #114
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"I know such things don't exist south of the Mason-Dixon line, but what would you have done if an Atheist joined your group?"

As I said, I don't lean that way myself and there is no requirement to join in the blessing.

My advise would be get over yourselves.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:13 PM   #115
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My advise would be get over yourselves.
Likewise.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:30 PM   #116
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If you cannot see how a similar "quid pro quo" could not be present regarding religion (especially since you adamantly assert your right to proselytize), then I maintain that you seem to have difficulty putting yourself into the potential quandary of the infidel sinner. It's very easy to move to "Fred over there doesn't seem to share our 'fellowship.' I'm not sure he's saved. I don't know if I trust him with more responsibility with the firm. I feel much more comfortable with Delbert, there. He's washed in the blood of the lamb like me."
this syndrome very much also inflicts gay people in the workforce. how many flamers do you see rise to ceo level or even middle management. very difficult to climb the corporate ladder with a limp wrist because the structure allows mostly only closet cases, those who pray and are str8 in public, to rise in rank.

in order for me to fit in, i wouldn't just have to participate with invoking someone else's god, but also, apparently, i would have to fabricate a discussion of enjoying relationships with the opposite sex. and frankly, after all that, i don't think i could stomach lunch.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:43 PM   #117
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Reading through all this was quite a surprise to me. I live in the South but am not of the Christian persuasion. I work (supervise) a local government department, 15 of us all together. We are much of a family and have a potluck lunch about quarterly. We've been doing this for 10-15 years.

We have a blessing of the food and each time we do it. Sometimes we give thanks for having safely survived another hurricane season. The work we do is often hazardous, so sometimes we give thanks that no one got hurt since the last time.

We were joined by a Muslim a few years back. So we stopped doing the blessing as "Christian" and began referring simply to God. No big deal.

As I said above, I'm not much Christian. But this is what the people that work for me like to do - and we do it.

Reading through all this, it makes me happy that I'll never know many of you... any closer than this screen & keyboard. Your intolerance is sort of breathtaking.
It's not only breathtaking, it's downright asinine! We all make accomodations at the work place and if someone's practice is hurtfull or really bothersome, I would hope that people wouldn't just shut their mouths, stew in some perceived outrage or bite their tongues and just go along with the program. You hear the rant about what if a Muslim prayer were said then we'd all change our views -- well that's just downright wrong. Your rights aren't dependent on whether you're in the majority or minority! And when Muslims, Jews or Wiccans find their rights trammelled, they do complain (rightfully so) and let us hear about it. If any prayer bothers someone, how on earth is the other side supposed to know that it's offensive to someone if everyone smiles, looks around and goes about as if nothing is happening, and then complains here, on the internet!

Thank God we had Jehovah Witnesses fighting for their rights to not conform to the "majority" religion and norm in our Country and create some of the most important separation of church and state rulings in our County. If they just conformed to the majority religion, then we'd all be in bad shape too. (And for those of you that have office birthday parties, who are also complaining about a simple grace at lunch, did it ever occur to you that birthday parties are offensive to Jehovah Witnesses, but God-forbid we ban office birthday parties because of the Jehovah Witnesses. At least the Jehovah Witnesses wouldn't try to ban office birthday parties -- they are more tolerant that most of us as they would never suggest this -- they would just not attend the parties.)

Well, that's my last rant here.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:47 PM   #118
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If any prayer bothers someone, how on earth is the other side supposed to know that it's offensive to someone if everyone smiles, looks around and goes about as if nothing is happening, and then complains here, on the internet!
Exactly correct. Which is why public prayer is inappropriate in the workplace, along with sexist jokes, etc. Many people will not say a word for fear of jeopardizing their position and prospects. They will just simmer until they quit or the lawsuit lands on someone's desk.
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:00 PM   #119
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A workplace, even a private workplace, has a public element. If an employer in a private workplace says, however indirectly, "if you have sex with me, it will further your career" this is harassment and illegal.

If you cannot see how a similar "quid pro quo" could not be present regarding religion (especially since you adamantly assert your right to proselytize), then I maintain that you seem to have difficulty putting yourself into the potential quandary of the infidel sinner. It's very easy to move to "Fred over there doesn't seem to share our 'fellowship.' I'm not sure he's saved. I don't know if I trust him with more responsibility with the firm. I feel much more comfortable with Delbert, there. He's washed in the blood of the lamb like me." Therefore, the condemned infidel is forced to either pretend to be something he is not to protect his career, or to be seen as "not belonging." Either option is uncomfortable in and some sense can constitute a "hostile work environment." It is certainly not of the same gravity as sexual harassment, and not worth statutory protection, IMO, but it has some of the same elements.

The original poster clearly was discomfited by the situation, therefore I made a "wild" assumption what his employer was not the "Association of Baptist Ministers" or some such.

I have asserted that in many situations it is inappropriate and, yes, rude, to thrust your religion on other people. IMO, you seem incapable or, more likely, unwilling to discern these situations.

Every opportunity you get, you choose to call me "intolerant." I have not suggested that obnoxious proselytizers be beat up, censored, quashed, or shouted down. I have merely suggested that they lack manners.

Consequently, IMO, due to your insistence on calling me intolerant every chance you get, I find your behavior very troll-like. I have nothing more to say to you.
Bosco, that's a cheap way to end the debate. Let me end in this way, I disagree with your entire post and you have a way of mischaracterizing stuff. I'm probably way to the left of you on many political issues (and I'm a strong supporter of the ACLU), but what really gets me upset is the intolerance of liberals and people who think some of us (southern) folk are a bit primitive (in addition to being "obnoxious proselytizers" and "rude and offensive").
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:02 PM   #120
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I'm probably way to the left of you on many political issues (and I'm a strong supporter of the ACLU), but what really gets me upset is the intolerance of liberals and people who think some of us (southern) folk are a bit primitive (in addition to being "obnoxious proselytizers" and "rude and offensive").
Don't forget the part about losing the war.

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