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Old 05-20-2011, 10:21 PM   #41
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This is a tough topic. There are more ways than "cheating on your spouse" to break trust in a marriage. And there are more ways to cheat than having sex with another.

My first husband did things like...wanting to take my paid for car that I owned once we were married and trade it in on a new car. It wasn't until we separated that I discovered he never put my name on the title. (but he told me it was).
Boy did I learn many lessons from that marriage.
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:25 PM   #42
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Oh...I failed to mention he had an affair with his secretary who came to my home while I was at work. She became pregnant by him. All...very messy. Thank goodness it was over 20 years ago.
Point being...if it's in their character..it will show in the little things. Then they become BIg things (husband or wife).
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:50 AM   #43
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Cheating is the only thing on that list that married couples take a vow not to do.
Well, I don't think that infidelity is a good thing. But as someone wrote above, when families have to be DNA typed for medical reasons they discover that 10% of the offsring do not belong to the guy who thought he was the father. That's matings that have produced babies, one might imagine that there are more that did not result in a pregnancy. Pretty common for something that people want to be so inflexible about. And clearly this involves female infidelity, so all the powerful man blaming rhetoric does not apply

My bet is that there is more than one person, maybe some right here on the board, who are absolutely sure that they would divorce their spouse tomorrow if he/she had cheated, and that person's spouse has in fact been with another.

One comment on the vow thing. People also stand up there and promise to obey. What woman here would even make a show of obeying her husband? It is laughable. An American man is lucky if his dog wil obey him.

How about the death do us part business? Looks like these vows are mostly pretty words, like most vows.

Ha
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Old 05-21-2011, 12:57 AM   #44
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One comment on the vow thing. People also stand up there and promise to obey. What women here even make a show of obeying their husbands? It is laughable.
When I married my ex back in 1975, my mother wanted us to be married in the Presbyterian Church. When we talked to the minister he asked what vows we wanted. I said, "Oh, the standard wedding service, I suppose, I guess is it 'love, honor, and obey'", and he looked totally shocked. He said, "We don't use "obey" any more." He wouldn't use that word.

He changed it to "love, honor, and cherish". I got a lot of mileage out of that over the years.
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:43 AM   #45
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If the cheating was just a moment of lust, I would be more inclined to forgive than if it was a long-term affair.
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Old 05-21-2011, 06:50 AM   #46
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If the cheating was just a moment of lust, I would be more inclined to forgive than if it was a long-term affair.
Out of curiosity, for those who agree with this option, is your spouse allowed more than one 'lustful' moment (and I suppose it would be with a different person each time)?

If so, how many over what period of time?

omni
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:03 AM   #47
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"We don't use "obey" any more." He wouldn't use that word.

He changed it to "love, honor, and cherish". I got a lot of mileage out of that over the years.
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Cheers!
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:23 AM   #48
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"We don't use "obey" any more." He wouldn't use that word.

He changed it to "love, honor, and cherish". I got a lot of mileage out of that over the years.
Same here (married in a Roman Catholic service, back in '69). Yes, we're still married and I would attribute that to the vows/promise that we made to each other, in public (before family and friends) many years ago.

While others make a "joke" of marriage, I personally do not. If you can't commit for the long term and really mean it, than just live together, and live your individual lives.

Heck, I've had more up's/downs than you can imagine over the last 40+ years (including caring for a challenged child). Without the commitment to each other, I believe we could have not done as well in life as we have.

Just my $.02 on the subject being discussed.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:28 AM   #49
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Out of curiosity, for those who agree with this option, is your spouse allowed more than one 'lustful' moment (and I suppose it would be with a different person each time)?

If so, how many over what period of time?

omni
Not too bothered as long as it is, a) not a long term affair, and b) not the whole cricket team.

If she can remember all the details then the re-telling of the one-off's will help spice up our later years.

PS
now been living together 37 years, married for 35 of them and the sentiment is still the same. A long term deceiptful affair would hurt, one or two lustful flings would not.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:43 AM   #50
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He changed it to "love, honor, and cherish". I got a lot of mileage out of that over the years.
Same wording as at our civil ceremony 10 years ago.
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:19 AM   #51
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While others make a "joke" of marriage, I personally do not. If you can't commit for the long term and really mean it, than just live together, and live your individual lives.

Except for roommates couples who live together for a long term are committed . They just didn't say the vows . Plus think about it if there are no barriers to breaking up such as divorce wouldn't people who live together have to be more committed to stay especially when the rough times hit and they always do ?
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #52
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Except for roommates couples who live together for a long term are committed . They just didn't say the vows . Plus think about it if there are no barriers to breaking up such as divorce wouldn't people who live together have to be more committed to stay especially when the rough times hit and they always do ?
Well said I think. Marriage can be like an electric fence around a paddock. The horses know that they could bust out, but they also have learned that it is going to hurt like hell if they do.

I personally believe in the importance of committment. But at this time of my life, I don't really want to involve rule-miking bodies like the state in my personal life.

When I read threads like this, if I try to answer the question posed I find that I usually think, well, it would depend on a lot of factors that have not been listed. So I can see that my attitudes are somehwat at odds with many of the attitudes expressed. Since I know that my attitudes are likely to be less black and white than most others', including representatives of the state like family court judges, my conclusion is to avoid as much of that stuff as I can.

Ha
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Old 05-21-2011, 10:59 AM   #53
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One comment on the vow thing. People also stand up there and promise to obey....Ha
I can't think of the last person I heard promise to obey in their wedding vows, including my own in 1972.

The people I know, both men and women, who chose to leave an unhappy marriage seem to be happy today.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:08 AM   #54
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I am not suggesting that he cheated because the marriage was not good. What I am saying is that if they had a great marriage, why is she so quick to divorce him as a 55 year old woman and risk growing old alone? I personally, don't think it's smart to divorce your husband of many years if you have a good marriage and he had a one time indiscretion.
growing old alone? I can think of nothing worse than growing old with someone so untrustworthy. I suspect she knew of his womanizing, wasn't happy about it but considered the kids, her religion, his nature, and it was meaningless dailiances....but to do what he did and then have that woman live in Maria's home, not to mention as a mother, how badly she must have felt for the child involved as well as her own children. I had a situation somewhat similar but not as extreme happen to me, and you feel like a fool....you trusted him, you trusted her....for all that time you were living a life under a certain assumption and then you find out all this had been going on....I suspect she wasn't that happy in the relationship but was trying to stick it out...when this happened, she may have sank to her knees in prayer thanking God for Arnold doing something so atrocious she could finally justify leaving him... that's what I did when it happened to me.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:15 AM   #55
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I can't think of the last person I heard promise to obey in their wedding vows, including my own in 1972.
OK, cancel that. Weddings give me a tummyache, so I may not be paying very close attention. We still have the death do us part, don't we? Or it is now mostly theater, photo ops, and videography?
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #56
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yep we had til death do us part and a lot of women stayed in marriages where they were physically, mentally, and emotionally abused. Back in the days of stay at home women that happened a lot and they stayed because they could not do otherwise financially. I agree that many people who could stick it out and work thru things, get out too easily, but overall, I'm glad there are options now. Wedding vows also say, foresake all others, don't they?
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #57
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I can't think of the last person I heard promise to obey in their wedding vows, including my own in 1972.

The people I know, both men and women, who chose to leave an unhappy marriage seem to be happy today.
same for us in 1976.

I noticed that even Kate and William promised to "love, honour and keep" each other.
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Old 05-21-2011, 11:54 AM   #58
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My wedding vows in 1977 were in another language (Greek). Neither of us knew what the heck we committed to, just signed the documents after.

In answer to the question posed in this thread, I would have to say "it depends". If I was romantically involved with someone but not married, I would drop him like a hot potato if he were unfaithful or lied to me about something else of great importance. Ditto if I were married a very short period of time and there were no children. With children, it would get more complicated for me, and I would want to make every attempt to work it out provided my husband agreed to counseling and made a good faith effort to change. It would take a long time for me to trust someone after an affair, though, I can tell you that. I believe very strongly in the sanctity of marriage and putting the well-being of the family unit first.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:31 PM   #59
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Well, I don't think that infidelity is a good thing. But as someone wrote above, when families have to be DNA typed for medical reasons they discover that 10% of the offsring do not belong to the guy who thought he was the father. That's matings that have produced babies, one might imagine that there are more that did not result in a pregnancy. Pretty common for something that people want to be so inflexible about. And clearly this involves female infidelity, so all the powerful man blaming rhetoric does not apply

My bet is that there is more than one person, maybe some right here on the board, who are absolutely sure that they would divorce their spouse tomorrow if he/she had cheated, and that person's spouse has in fact been with another.

One comment on the vow thing. People also stand up there and promise to obey. What woman here would even make a show of obeying her husband? It is laughable. An American man is lucky if his dog wil obey him.

How about the death do us part business? Looks like these vows are mostly pretty words, like most vows.

Ha
You are clearly one of our most thoughtful and analytical posters. I couldn't agree with you more. I too would swear up and down that I would divorce a cheating spouse but does any of us really know whether our spouse has cheated? Maybe it's better not to really know.
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:35 PM   #60
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Not too bothered as long as it is, a) not a long term affair, and b) not the whole cricket team.

If she can remember all the details then the re-telling of the one-off's will help spice up our later years.

PS
now been living together 37 years, married for 35 of them and the sentiment is still the same. A long term deceiptful affair would hurt, one or two lustful flings would not.

How do you define long term affair? What if the man was regularly seeing a prostitute like Spitzer? Actually, I think his wife as a smart woman not to destroy her family by divorcing him, especially considering that no child resulted from Spitzer's daliances.
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