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Old 09-24-2007, 09:47 PM   #21
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maybe because they took their land, put them in camps and are are still taking more of it?


Hmmm Why don't you explain the steps leading up to them "taking their land"

amazing how some minor details can change an entire story.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:46 AM   #22
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Is Israel important to the US? Yes.
Is Israel held to a different std. than anyone else? Yes.

I just learned incidentally that if you are not Jewish and married by an orthodox rabbi, you cannot be legally married in Israel. There is no provision for civil marriage.

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Are you Jewish (secular, Orthodox, Conservative, Reform?) or Arab (Moslem, Christian, Druze?) and perhaps thinking of marrying someone from a religion other than your own? Are you a new immigrant with non-existent or questionable Jewish roots? Are you a gay man or a lesbian? Be aware that no civil marriage ceremony is available for anyone in Israel. For those who object to an Orthodox religious ceremony or do not "qualify" in religious terms for such a ceremony, the Isle of Cyprus awaits. For a reasonable sum, you can fly to Cyprus for a civil marriage ceremony, which will be recognized in Israel.
Jewish Currents - Love and Marriage in Israel

You do have to wonder what Arab citizens of the state of Israel have to go through, even if they are non-militant and 'assimilated.'
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:08 AM   #23
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I just learned incidentally that if you are not Jewish and married by an orthodox rabbi, you cannot be legally married in Israel. There is no provision for civil marriage.
Just try getting married by an Orthodox Rabbi when you both aren't Jewish.

My wife and I have never had to document something so completely in our life when we tried to get married. They don't take anybodies word for anything, it has to all be on paper. I was sure that by the end he was going to check for circumcision, thankfully he didn't.
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:00 PM   #24
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Just try getting married by an Orthodox Rabbi when you both aren't Jewish.
My wife and I have never had to document something so completely in our life when we tried to get married. They don't take anybodies word for anything, it has to all be on paper. I was sure that by the end he was going to check for circumcision, thankfully he didn't.
I was best man for a friend's wedding. His parents felt that an Orthodox rabbi was important so his spouse-to-be went through the conversion process. They they spent weeks drafting the ketubah and checking for errors.

By the time the blessed ceremony arrived the bride, groom, and both sets of parents were ready to kill each other. I think the marriage lasted for three years, and I sometimes wonder if she "converted back"...
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Old 09-25-2007, 01:16 PM   #25
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Hmmm Why don't you explain the steps leading up to them "taking their land"

amazing how some minor details can change an entire story.
since you asked, here are some "minor details...

how about the part where they drove the British out Palestine by using terrorism? Blowing up the King David Hotel and killing 91 people including 28 British soldiers (oh yeah--they claimed they gave the Brits a 'warning' to evacuate so the loss of lifes wasn't their fault)? The individual who ordered the bombing, Menachem Begin--you remember him, don't you? He's the one that attacked Palestinians all the time due to their terrorism. Guess it takes one to know one.

King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If that isn't grisly enough, another ex-prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, attended a 60th anniversary celebration of the bombing.

Or the part where Ariel Sharon stood and watched while Lebanese Christian militia slaughtered 1500 men women and children in Sabra and Shatila? see

Sabra and Shatila massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

although the wikipedia article says that Sharon was forced to resign, he was forced to resign as defence minister but remained in cabinet as a "minister without portfolio." Slap on the wrist. Yes, the same Sharon who deliberately revved up the Temple Mount issue so he could further his political career, at great loss of life.

Or do you mean the land captured and not returned after the 6 day war?

Both sides in this conflict have plenty of flies on them. Unfortunately, usually one side only is given any consideration in the US. It is important for people to understand the depth of the conflict in order for them to understand how uncritical support of anything Israel does is seen abroad. Oh yeah, sorry, forgot--many Americans don't care what the UN or the international community thinks.

Regardless of how the land was taken--and for sure much of the original land was purchased and donated--a LOT of people were displaced and remain an Israeli and an international responsibility. Unfortunately, the responsibility mounts as time goes by, more settlements are made, and more people are displaced.

My interest is in having an Israel and a Palestine with internationally recognized borders that are at peace with one another. Unfortunately, forces on both sides are working hard to be sure this does not happen.

Peace was close with the Camp David accords, and IMO, the fault of the impasse largely rests with the Palestinians. However, that does not change the fact that the original 700,000 refugees that were displaced with the original formation of Israel now number some 4,000,000. Since the world participated in forming Israel, these people are the responsibility of the entire world. For this reason, it distresses me to see the US take on a partisan role in the conflict, and why I tend to present the Palestinian view in discussions. This does not mean I favour one side over the other. As I stated above, I think Arafat did Palestinians a huge disservice by not accepting the Camp David offer in 2000. But do we forget the 4,000,000 refugees because their leader did something dumb? How would you as one of 300,000,000 Americans, like to be judged based on the action of your present leader?
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