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Yesterday and Tomorrow
Old 12-01-2014, 08:34 AM   #1
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Yesterday and Tomorrow

We are certainly a mixed group here... ages 23 to 80 so far. This leads to different perspectives, based on our ages. From morality, to social interaction, to the way we see the future... the roots of our being largely come from those that we learned in our early years.

This comment from haha, in a thread about cheer... cheerleading... struck me to the core, and started some thoughts about the past, and life the way it was in the 1940's, and 1950's... the early years. Then... looking at my grand children, seeing the way their lives are different... Finally, trying to look into the future... To guess where and how they will live in the future.

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Originally Posted by mystang52 View Post
Kids need to just be kids.

haha's comment:
Does anyone think that in the US this has a snowball's chance in hell of happening?

After a new great depression, or WW3 or something similarly powerful-maybe.

On Thanksgiving I sat with man I have known 15 years or so. He was a special ops non-com, but maybe 5 years ago became a contractor. In my opinion, what this guy doesn't know about life isn't worth knowing.

Anyway, he and I agree, it's essentially over for us. Our society is so completely insane that there is no way, given what our politics and social ideas are, that any of the social strengths that we understood as America prior to ~1960 will ever be seen again.
... so not to judge or complain, but to see the differences, and how they will affect the future.

For starters... some differences from my own past:
. Growing up in the aftermath of the Victorian era, where there were words we didn't say, thoughts we weren't supposed to think, and a structured way of life, with levels of respect for age, status, and position within the community. It was a time where patriotism was foremost and politics (at least on the surface) was less important than the welfare of the nation. A time when the ultimate mother's dream was that her child would be the President of the United States.
As children, we made our own play, and were free to roam until 5PM meal time, and then, when the streetlights came on. A time when neighbors watched over, and disciplined other family's children ... and long, long before the term "politically correct" existed.
It was a time, long before TV... when radio serials ruled the evening winter hours... when we could listen to "The Thin Man", while building dreams with lincoln logs or an erector set.
School was a place where the teacher was the absolute boss. Where bad behavior might result in after school, or a ruler slapping the palms of our hands.

The subject of growing up is endless. More interesting is predicting the future. Socio economics color our thinking, based on what we see around us... ie. the electronic/technical world and the degree of adoption by the young people based on the family income... BUT... overall, future adults have a broad overview based on exposure to TV and the movies.

And so we look ahead, what can happen? Haha's quote:
" new great depression, or WW3 or something similarly powerful-maybe"

What will the future hold? 5 years, 10 years or 20 years from now... and how will the young people of today adapt?

Wide open for your thoughts.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:22 AM   #2
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I miss certain things about being a kid in the 50s - freedom to roam and do your own thing primary among them. But there were just as many negatives in terms of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. The youth I meet today through my kids seem pretty well rounded. And I just read some statistics on violence indicating that most yardsticks of crime are at their lowest since the early 60s. So, by and large I am pretty optimistic despite the over protective net we cocoon the kids in.

Edit: everybody knows Ha is a cranky old man
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:35 AM   #3
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I remember being a child in the 50's. The boy down the street who I played with the most got polio and ended up in the really severe sort of "polio" braces. And then in HS we got sorted by family status into the advanced, middle or lower level courses. Never mind that the mayor's twin girls were really dumb, they got my place in advanced math. Ending up with the girl on the next block who died from sepsis due to her coat hanger abortion. Thanks but no thanks I like now a whole lot.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:38 AM   #4
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If people want their kids to be able to go out and play, they should send them outside to play. No need for an act of Congress to make it possible.
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:57 AM   #5
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One big difference seems to be the lack of physical activity among kids. When I was growing up in mid60-s to mid 70's (before I went off to college), we were always outside running around doing something - softball, basketball, football, biking (and this in a big city). If there weren't enough playgrounds we would play in the street. Without all the TV/computer/video game distractions we would go outside for fun. I can think of any of my friends growing up who were overweight to the point of getting tired out during our activities.

In addition, much of these were done without adult supervision - go to a playground or street, choose up sides, play and self-referee. Rarely had fights, and when we did they were forgotten by the next game.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:52 AM   #6
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Growing up in the 50's, I had so much more freedom than most children have these days. We stayed out until dark, didn't have to report home all the time, and roamed far from home. I had a horse and often rode miles away, just exploring, at 11-12 years old.


Most in our neighborhood won't let their children out front of their homes without a parent present. Most have to stay inside their homes until parents get home from work, if they are old enough to stay home alone. Sometimes, if I'm walking my dog, I see the caution in parents' eyes, when I start talking to a child in the yard. Everyone seems so overprotected.


My grandchildren live on a ranch and have lots of freedom and responsibilities. I am thankful for this.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:36 PM   #7
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I honestly believe that the country we grew up in and expected for ourselves later in life is long, long gone.

I don't think these times are any more dangerous and in many ways are better, but if I stand back and look at where we are today as a culture, (overall lack of respect, low work ethic, sense of entitlement) I can't say there's much hope for the country as many of us wish it to be.

We are no longer a melting pot nation. We are a nation of 52 varieties of cultures, languages, expectations, agendas and one filled with resentment, victim-hood and a belief that it is a zero-sum game where if someone wins, someone else had to lose.

I just gotta ride out the next 25 years. You'll go mad if you try to get back to what we had...it's gone and unlikely to return.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:40 PM   #8
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I wish the media would go back to what I remember from the 50s and 60s.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:48 PM   #9
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I wish the media would go back to what I remember from the 50s and 60s.
As in "reporting" the news, not making it?
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:10 PM   #10
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As in "reporting" the news, not making it?
Indeed. Each media outlet seems to be strongly slanting the news to fit their particular point of view. There's no objective neutral news sources. On top of which there is online news, which seems to value ability to attract clicks more than anything, including whether the "news" is actually true.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
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Ah yes, the common lament of "Why are we in this handbasket and where are we going?"

It wasn't long ago, but long enough ago that I forgot where, that I read of the same concern for the future because of the lazy, entitled youth of the day would send civilization crumbling. It was written 2,000 years ago on a cave wall.

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Old 12-01-2014, 02:26 PM   #12
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I strongly suspect every generation looks at the current state of affairs as a disaster compared to when they grew up.
And I suspect every generation was just as wrong.

As for kids playing, the neighborhood kids are out playing all the time. At dusk they come in and often they are out on their own.
Adults in the neighborhood keep an eye out.

Odd people roaming the neighborhood in a unmarked white van stopping and talking to kids rapidly get the spotlight on the neighborhood FaceBook page and police.
I am sure many parents of missing children from the 70s and 80s wish that level of networking was around.

Are there bad things, sure, but there are good as well.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:32 PM   #13
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If people want their kids to be able to go out and play, they should send them outside to play. No need for an act of Congress to make it possible.
This.

We are mean parents that force our kids to play outside periodically. I say mean because they'd much rather spend all their time playing video games. We make them take 1hr breaks and go ride their bikes or shoot basketball.

It's surprising how unusual this is.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:55 PM   #14
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I strongly suspect every generation looks at the current state of affairs as a disaster compared to when they grew up.
I don't think that the generation that is now young parents are anything but terrific. I spent Thanksgiving at a house full of great children and their wonderful parents, over 60 in total. I just think that the cultural support for parents today is so much less than what my generation had. Raising my kids was a piece of cake, compared to what today's parents face. For one thing, only Daddy had to work. Mom was home, well rested and fully invested in our home and children.

As to your other point about every generation, actually it is not true. Young vital civilizations are different from civilizations entering into cultural senescence. Read histories of classical Rome.

Lastly, I don't expect much agreement, and I actually don't care very much. We can all be happy anyway. Even dying civilizations have their charms.

Ha
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:24 PM   #15
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One thing I know - if your children are of modest intelligence, work hard, treat people with respect, and show initiative - they will shine and advance in all respects. Those traits are simply not that common today.
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Old 12-01-2014, 04:28 PM   #16
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I think this is just the standard older generations ranting about younger generations. According to The Economist a kid under five in the 1950s was five times more likely to die than the same kid today. If anything, kids in our neighborhood need to remember the street is foremost a place for cars to drive and not a playground. Kids are out by themselves at all hours. As someone else pointed out, there's an active neighborhood FaceBook page that folks are quick to post on.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:01 PM   #17
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One change I have noticed. If a kid jumped off a jungle gym or something wrong and got hurt it was his own fault. If he does it now it is somebody else's fault that it happened. But while I am on the subject of jungle gyms, at least they society improved by putting rubber or wood chips underneath them. Ours growing up was concrete. Always seemed to be blood stains somewhere all the time on the concrete.....


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Old 12-01-2014, 05:38 PM   #18
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Kids in our neighborhood play in the street and are generally polite about moving to the side for cars to pass. Some of the younger ones are little daredevils and ride their bikes into the street without looking for cars. I once had a parent knock on my door because a contractor that came to my house was going too fast while his young kids were playing. I suggested he teach his kids to not play in the street....didn't go well.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:39 PM   #19
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We have very few kids in our neighborhood, so I can't say whether or not they're spending more time now indoors. But I visited my niece a month ago and there were kids running around all over the neighborhood.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Ah yes, the common lament of "Why are we in this handbasket and where are we going?"

It wasn't long ago, but long enough ago that I forgot where, that I read of the same concern for the future because of the lazy, entitled youth of the day would send civilization crumbling. It was written 2,000 years ago on a cave wall.
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Didn't know it went to the cave days, but makes sense. When the waltz was introduced the older folks thought it was scandalous and would cause the moral corruption of those who danced it!
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