You need to work past 70! (But we don't want you)

[aja8888]

Well by broken down I mean the orthopedic stuff. You know, knee and hip replacements, shoulders and rotator cuffs, spinal issues. Much of it fixable, unless the microbes get you.

You don't realize how much you rely on 'dem bones' until they let you down.

Hmmm, I have a total hip replacement (6 years now) and I have not been this mobile since years before getting the hip replaced. Like you said, much of it is fixable (maybe more than you would know).

 

[Amethyst]

I suspect the second group of "they's" (thems?) outnumbers the first by quite a bit.

It is just ironic that on one side, "they" want you to work forever, and on the other, "they" want to toss you into the garbage/scrap/rubbish heap.

 

[Milton]

Millennials are treated as gods. We are upending our entire office culture to bow down to their wisdom.

Yes, it's bizarre ... especially when the average millennial - as with all generalizations, there are always exceptions - has little experience, insight, or sense of loyalty (most are keen on changing employers at least once every couple of years).

 

[Milton]

I wore gym clothes to the store this morning. Nobody fainted, called the cops, or gave any indication they even saw me.

See here.

 

[JoeWras]

Heard a local estate planner on our radio. Actually, and elder law lawyer.

He is estimating that kids born today will live to 100's, so they'll have to work past 70. He warned a caller (in his 20s) that he should at least plan for 95, and hence work to 70.

How, how, how? Since I started this thread, I've been doing a little job searching at age 55. In the tech industry, it is very difficult. Darn near impossible I'd say. And this talk of robotics is not nonsense. It will have a huge impact.

To the lawyer's credit, he said the best defense besides working forever for kids born today is fund a roth early. He suggested that a nice gift to your teen would be to fund a roth if the teen is earning money with a W-2 job. Help the teen manage their money, but also help them out by shadowing a roth contribution. I didn't think it was a terrible idea.

 

[Totoro]

Beats me too. High end intellect challenging won't work, hard labor won't work.

Low end service jobs maybe? Some teaching? Running a BnB or tourism in general? Elder care activities?

 

[Chuckanut]

Yes, it's bizarre ... especially when the average millennial - as with all generalizations, there are always exceptions - has little experience, insight, or sense of loyalty (most are keen on changing employers at least once every couple of years).

Two comments:

First, Many of the millenials I know complain that the younger generation (18-25 year olds) are a bunch of slackers. The common complaint - calling in sick on Monday and giving the excuse that they are hung-over.

Second: Many millennials have seen what happened to their parents, uncles, aunts etc. who were loyal employees. In there 50's they were kicked to the curb for a variety of reasons ranging from moving jobs overseas, bringing in foreign workers, or the CEO/Owner wanting a new boat. They saw that there was no loyalty at all to people who have worked for many years. If millenials now show little loyalty to their employers it is because the employers have taught that to them, IMHO.

 

[Chuckanut]

P.S. I wore gym clothes to the store this morning. Nobody fainted, called the cops, or gave any indication they even saw me.

Amethyst

Egads! I became faint and needed to sit down when I read that.

Of course, there are exceptions depedng on the person and situation. If my slim, fit, triathlon training female neighbor wants to wear shorts and a sports bra to the store that is fine with me. OTOH, I'm not sure you want to see my knobby knees and armpits while having a romantic dinner at a fancy restaurant.

To get back on topic, These warnings are not intended for this financially sophisticated group. They are intended for people like my former neighbor whom I have mentioned earlier. His retirement plan was to be a 'waiter' - Wait for his uncle to die and leave him a collection of gold coins. This is the type of guy who is going to be working past 70.

In my mind, I opened up a descent paying professional job for a younger person when I retired. Now what is so bad about that?

 

[athena53]

Who are the "they" who care about whether people are still working at 70 or not? And why do they care?

I see this advice mostly in the clickbait articles on retirement. If you want to have a good retirement, work longer, delay SS till age 70, etc. I see it also in the interviews with people who haven't saved very much and figure they can keep working past 65- which is fine as longa s their minds, their bodies and the job market support it.

The reality I saw in the workplace was that as I got older, I was more frequently working for younger people. For the most part, it was OK- they were good leaders and I learned from them and that was what was most important. As I got further into my career, though, I could see age becoming more of a liability. At one employer, where I was based in the former Midwest HQ of a company they acquired, all the great opportunities were in their NA HQ in Westchester or HQ in Switzerland. Moving me would have cost a bundle and I would have lost $$ going to Switzerland since they rarely made salary adjustments for moving to a HCOL area. Not a good investment in your career when you're almost 60. The people I still see moving up there are all younger than I am and the older ones are moving on, voluntarily or not.

I will say that the benefits and incentives I got at that job after the acquisition really helped by savings for ER. I'm just darned glad I wasn't planning to work till age 70 since the job I tool after that lasted only 18 months (younger boss, this time a lousy one).

 

[Hyperborea]

So, OK, work in the "knowledge field." Fine! That's what I do now. But guess what. They don't want you. Apparently everyone over 40 is dumb. No more knowledge. I'm seeing it first hand. I know this has been a problem for a long time, but it is completely out of control in the tech world. Millennials are treated as gods. We are upending our entire office culture to bow down to their wisdom. And when layoffs come, well you know what happens.

Actually, I don't think it's as bad as it used to be. I had heard and seen some of the "if you're over 40 you're out" in the 90's and early 2000's in the Bay Area. However, it has lessened a great amount. I was actively courted by one of the supposed bastions of youthful engineers when I was over 40. They kept at it for 3 years before I finally went in for interviews. I was worried that I would be old but 2/3 of the people who interviewed me were older than I was. I spent the last 7 years of my career there and I worked with people in a wide range of ages, some even beyond the "normal" 65 retirement age.

Some of the change is due to the increase in demand for good engineers and the limited supply so I don't know if it will continue.

Edit: I was thinking about this a little more after I posted.

I think there is something that can appear to be ageism but isn't. The front running tech companies like those mentioned in the article (Google, Apple, etc) need employees who can effectively use the latest and greatest technologies. Over time the window of the age of technologies used at a company moves forward. An engineer who is knowledgable in only the tech that was available when they came out of school 20 years ago would find that there are fewer and fewer jobs they can do until finally there are no jobs inside the company that they can do. It is often quicker than 20 years.

To stay in the front most companies it requires one to keep on a constant treadmill of learning new tech. Some of it good and worthwhile and some of it nothing more than the same stuff in a new packaging. But it doesn't matter, you still need to learn the new stuff all the time. For older engineers this can be difficult. They have other responsibilities outside of work (aging parents, children, etc.), they get tired of running the treadmill, etc. Some of the changes are as simple as learning a new tool, some learning a new programming language, but some are complete mental model shifts that take a big change in thought process. The later can be hard to do and some don't make the transition. I saw that happen early in my career to older engineers and object oriented programming.

I'm not sure that anybody who works outside that environment really has any idea of the amount of work needed to stay current.

 

[Bigdawg]

All fields change. I am in Aviation. I have had to keep up with the changes over the last almost 30 years. One answer is diversification. While watching my son play baseball almost 20 years ago I noticed there were umpires. I found out that they get paid. So now I umpire aprox 200 games per year. Same thing with my daughter and volleyball. The ref's get paid. Now I do that. I've rented and paid someone for that. Now I own a few and I collect the rent. Getting into an industry in your early 20's then not becomeing diversified or looking for mutiple sources of income (or getting more education) is on a risky path. The only thing constant is change. Don't know who to attribute that to.

 

[foxfirev5]

All fields change. I am in Aviation. I have had to keep up with the changes over the last almost 30 years. One answer is diversification. While watching my son play baseball almost 20 years ago I noticed there were umpires. I found out that they get paid. So now I umpire aprox 200 games per year. Same thing with my daughter and volleyball. The ref's get paid. Now I do that. I've rented and paid someone for that. Now I own a few and I collect the rent. Getting into an industry in your early 20's then not becomeing diversified or looking for mutiple sources of income (or getting more education) is on a risky path. The only thing constant is change. Don't know who to attribute that to.

Excellent points. We all have to react as well as be proactive to changes in our own world. the simple investment plans many of us have placed our future may not be adequate. While I have no plans to deviate I can see the need to keep your eyes open. A few extra sources of income can't hurt. So I guess I'll take my continuing courses and renew my builders license next month. I still don't plan on working but just in case I'm improving my overall health and conditioning as a top priority. A Win Win situation either way.

 

[JoeWras]

Appreciate and agree with the "change" aspect of the recent posts. It is mandatory in tech.

Doesn't always matter at interview time when they see your wizened face.

 

[broadway]

Appreciate and agree with the "change" aspect of the recent posts. It is mandatory in tech.

Doesn't always matter at interview time when they see your wizened face.

They don't even have to see you in person.
All they need is your resume.

I have kept just the most 10 years of work experience on my resume, but I know that some people hold the contract jobs against me. What am I suppose to do? Starve?

Every single programming language that I know I have taught myself on my own time. No employer paid for any of the training. Yet, I am considered "too old".

Most of the jobs I see online are posted by headhunter firms like Robert Half where the headhunters are 20-somethings who have no clue. They find my resume online, because they don't have a reserve of contacts that they can call.

 

[Amethyst]

Fortunately I do not own pajamas So if I ever return to England, I won't offend at Tesco

See here.

 

[Amethyst]

It seems to me that nowadays, someone well-grounded in a "technology" career would naturally become more valuable with experience, assuming they put in the effort to keep up with their field, show enthusiasm for new developments, and resist any temptation to rest on past achievements.

This increasing value would not escape astute employers.

Notice I said "astute." That quality may not be as common as we'd like.

 

[FIREmenow]

It seems to me that nowadays, someone well-grounded in a "technology" career would naturally become more valuable with experience, assuming they put in the effort to keep up with their field, show enthusiasm for new developments, and resist any temptation to rest on past achievements.

This increasing value would not escape astute employers.

Notice I said "astute." That quality may not be as common as we'd like.

This is spot on, and has been my experience for the last 33 years.

 

[Amethyst]

Mine as well. Although I've also observed a lot of older technologists going into management, as the money can be better.

This is spot on, and has been my experience for the last 33 years.

 

[JoeWras]

Mine as well. Although I've also observed a lot of older technologists going into management, as the money can be better.

I don't care about the money. I'd take a 20% cut. Try to tell that to a prospective employer. They'll raise a red flag to you.

 

[JoeWras]

I don't care about the money. I'd take a 20% cut. Try to tell that to a prospective employer. They'll raise a red flag to you.

Hmmm. Reading my own quote. Maybe I do need to follow my 2018 plan and stop this OMY, FIRE, and make room for the next generation.

But here's the deal, in my biz, the next generation is offshore. And maybe that's OK in the big scheme of things, but it isn't helping my family.

I don't want to go political here, it is just an observation and reality. And it sure doesn't fit into the pundits' plans of working past 70.

 

[Chuckanut]

Getting into an industry in your early 20's then not becomeing diversified or looking for mutiple sources of income (or getting more education) is on a risky path. The only thing constant is change. Don't know who to attribute that to.

+1

Especially on the multiple sources of income.

The stream can be made up of many things - stocks/bonds that pay good dividends, a second job one enjoys, rental properties, etc.

 

[youbet]

So we've had a group of posts about experts telling us we need to work past 70.

But how is that going to work? My body is broken down. As much as I love hard physical labor, it is barely possible for me now, and will be impossible past age 55.

For we geezers, or soon-to-be-geezers, the mantra has been to work for the gov't or MegaCorp, earn a pension, earn SS, fund a 401k, etc., and then fully retire living off passive income. But the world has changed and will not revert. Things move faster. Change is the norm.

The key for today's youth is to be flexible and able to support yourself in multiple and flexible ways both during your full time work years and in full or partial retirement. Having the right ongoing skills, owning the right income producing investments and knowing how to control expenses is what it's all about.

 

[JoeWras]

For we geezers, or soon-to-be-geezers, the mantra has been to work for the gov't or MegaCorp, earn a pension, earn SS, fund a 401k, etc., and then fully retire living off passive income. But the world has changed and will not revert. Things move faster. Change is the norm.

The key for today's youth is to be flexible and able to support yourself in multiple and flexible ways both during your full time work years and in full or partial retirement. Having the right ongoing skills, owning the right income producing investments and knowing how to control expenses is what it's all about.

So, a young person today should be looking forward to learning a skill for age 75, something like "Telepathic control of industrial robots" or some such. They need to keep an open mind and be on the ball to learn new things.

 

[razztazz]

So, a young person today should be looking forward to learning a skill for age 75, something like "Telepathic control of industrial robots" or some such. They need to keep an open mind and be on the ball to learn new things.

The way this fantasy works is, no matter what circumstance you find yourself in years in the future, no mater how hard you worked, or home many bells and whistles you've picked up and added on to yourself, they will tell you: Whatever you did you should have done something else. And that's why you can't find work

 

[JoeWras]

The way this fantasy works is, no matter what circumstance you find yourself in years in the future, no mater how hard you worked, or home many bells and whistles you've picked up and added on to yourself, they will tell you: Whatever you did you should have done something else. And that's why you can't find work

Yep.