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Old 03-18-2013, 11:07 AM   #21
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Depends how you go about it. If all you are trying to do is 'win' , then yes, that can make the other person feel inferior. But if you aim to educate, you may be doing that person a big favor. What good is it to live under a false assumption? That can have a very high cost.
Unless of course the 'educator' is wrong to begin with...
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:19 AM   #22
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Unless of course the 'educator' is wrong to begin with...
Good point. It works both ways - if one wants to learn (and not just take a contrary position - see the Monty Python 'Argument Clinic' line), they need to also listen and be willing to change their stance if the evidence goes against them.

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Old 03-18-2013, 11:40 AM   #23
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Depends how you go about it. If all you are trying to do is 'win' , then yes, that can make the other person feel inferior. But if you aim to educate, you may be doing that person a big favor. What good is it to live under a false assumption? That can have a very high cost.

-ERD50
Good points.

However, find me a human being who not only wants to be informed that he/she is "wrong" but also wants to be corrected at the same time.

Maybe it's because I'm female...
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:51 AM   #24
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Good points.

However, find me a human being who not only wants to be informed that he/she is "wrong" but also wants to be corrected at the same time.
I am one of those people. As I said, if I am wrong, and no one corrects me, I may suffer. I want to be corrected. Anyone who doesn't correct me on something that could harm me is doing me a disservice.

If some people have such thin skin that they can't take a well-meaning correction, then that skin is probably going to get hurt an awful lot.


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Old 03-18-2013, 12:16 PM   #25
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Depends how you go about it. If all you are trying to do is 'win' , then yes, that can make the other person feel inferior. But if you aim to educate, you may be doing that person a big favor. What good is it to live under a false assumption? That can have a very high cost.
Sometimes this exists only in some guy's mind. He is “educating" someone like a child or a woman, who is socially or temperamentally or economically constrained from telling him to get lost.
I know several women who rode a losing attitude right into the ground, in 2 of 3 cases almost certainly because they were tired of being educated by males. One woman I have written about here before, because her story seemed so dramatic to me. She blew through a $2mm inheritance because she was rid of her overbearing husband, rid of her overbearing father, and finally able to make her own decisions. Essentially all of them bad as it happened, but even though she is now 60 and will work until she cannot drag herself out of bed, she feels good about her achievement in getting out from under men and running her own life.

I learned a lot about this from another really interesting, good looking early middle aged woman I didn't know, but talked with for a few hours while we each were waiting for repairs on our Tauruses at a Ford dealer. This woman was not married, and had no children. She also had an inheritance, though much smaller than the woman above. When she got the money, she quit her waitress job and went to school at Central WA University in Ellensburg, to study anthropology. Her brother tried to "educate' her to study accounting, or nursing or some other practical course instead of anthropology, but she countered that she had no interest in these things, but did want to learn anthropology.

So 10 years on when we talked, she had spent her inheritance, moved back to Seattle, and was back to waitressing. And she claimed to be very happy. She said that her years as a student were the best ones in her life, and that she was very grateful for having had the opportunity to do this. And that she felt good to have a college degree. Another point she made, that was quite telling to me, was that she had done well, and her professors respected her for her brains and achievement.

I am oriented toward having enough money to keep people from having power over me because they have control over my income, so I don't naturally come by the feelings that these women expressed. But it certainly convinced me that educating people usually is not a very good idea, unless they clearly ask for it, and then be careful anyway. It can blow up in our faces.

Ha
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:20 PM   #26
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And then there are those who take sport in disecting every word that someone posts and may also change the context, even when they fully understood an OPs context
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:24 PM   #27
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But it certainly convinced me that educating people usually is not a very good idea, unless they clearly ask for it, and then be careful anyway. It can blow up in our faces.

Ha
Well one certainly needs to read the situation to try to determine if it is appropriate or not (and not be too surprised if they misjudged it!).

I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of factual things, not so much life-style decisions and such. Like sometimes I will hear people say they are going to warm up their car in winter and let it idle for 20 minutes, because it is 'good for it', or that they always change their oil every 3,000 miles. In these cases, I mention that that may have been true at one time, but they should look at their owners manual, that most pros I've heard say it is better to warm a car up by just driving gently for the first few miles. It warms it up faster, which is better for the engine, and you waste less gas. Same for oil changes, most cars are 6-10,000 miles now, and more changes are just wasting money and resources for no benefit.

I do that to be helpful, and like I said, I would sure want to know if I was wasting time/money over some mistaken idea. If they want to get mad at me for providing that info, that's their problem. So maybe I'll keep my mouth shut next time - their loss.


It's one of the reasons I come to this forum. Take the concept of delaying SS - I originally thought that taking it early was a slam-dunk. It would do me no good to get mad when presented with info contrary to what I thought was true. It's hard for me to understand going through life like that.

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Old 03-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #28
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I agree, and overall i think pepole come to this board hoping to learn important facts and procedures. But I tend to be wary of giving advice in face to face circumstances. Not holding back on this is part of why I am now single. My former wife had education spending plans that conflicted with what I thought were sensible ways for middle aged people to spend, given that I was the only real earner and was now retired. Since i have always understood that when you are married you are a unit financially, we crapped out on marriage as I would not fold.

I am not sure I ever gave any advice to my sons, once they were 15 or 16. I never listened to my father, even though he was quite frequently correct. I decided I would for the most part rather be liked than helpful, in the advice sense of helpfulness.

I remember a situation with a brother who was 11 years younger than I. I was home on a visit, and he was driving me somewhere. I noticed that he was riding the clutch on the Camaro. it was my parents' car, and I told him that when he drove that way, the clutch never completely engaged, thus causing some slip and premature wear. He didn’t argue, but much later he told me how strongly he disliked my butting in.

Danger is a different category. My ex's uncle pointed out that something I was doing with an old farm tractor was very unsafe, and that it could cause he tractor to "climb the gears"(differential) and flip over and kill me. I was embarrassed, but definitely glad he told me as I was inexperienced and had no idea of this.

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Old 03-18-2013, 04:09 PM   #29
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So how do we explain those people who root for the CUBS?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:04 PM   #30
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... I am not sure I ever gave any advice to my sons, once they were 15 or 16. ...
Yes, I am very careful to try to avoid giving advice to my kids (as you say below - danger issues are a different thing). If appropriate and it's something I know more about than they do (which isn't always the case anymore!), I will try to fill them in on pros/cons, but try to be clear it is their decision.

Less so with DW, but I think it's easier to create distance with the kids than DW.



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... I remember a situation with a brother who was 11 years younger than I. I was home on a visit, and he was driving me somewhere. I noticed that he was riding the clutch on the Camaro. it was my parents' car, and I told him that when he drove that way, the clutch never completely engaged, thus causing some slip and premature wear. He didn’t argue, but much later he told me how strongly he disliked my butting in. ...

To my thinking, you did the right thing. I still say, if he disliked it - tough, it deserved to be said (it wasn't his car). Everyone has to weigh doing what they think is the right thing, and whatever effect it might have on the relationship. It makes life interesting, often more interesting than I care for!


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Old 03-18-2013, 09:09 PM   #31
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So how do we explain those people who root for the CUBS?



It's like 'Jazz' - if you have to explain it, they will never understand!

Maybe it's time to sidetrack this thread with music videos?





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Old 03-18-2013, 09:12 PM   #32
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