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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 10:55 AM   #41
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
we owe it to our kids to get them out of school.
I thought we bribed sent our kids to college to get them out of our house.

This thread is beginning to remind me of Rodney Dangerfield: "My parents moved a lot when I was a kid, but I always found them!"
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:27 AM   #42
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by donheff
I believe I do owe it to them to cover college the extent that I can. I made that deal when I decided to have kids.
I think your decision is admirable. But I would disagree strongly that one must figure college costs into the decision to have children. Would you rather be a young person who needs to fund his own post secondary education or one who was never born?

The "never born" option doesn't give much respect to the resourcefulness of the child.

Ha
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:35 AM   #43
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by HaHa
Would you rather be a young person who needs to fund his own post secondary education or one who was never born?
Come on Ha, this argument is just plain weird.

(Along with Al, I worry about overpopulation. More "never borns" the better , given all the children most of us could have had).
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:45 AM   #44
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by Martha
Come on Ha, this argument is just plain weird.

(Along with Al, I worry about overpopulation. More "never borns" the better , given all the children most of us could have had).
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:46 AM   #45
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by Lazarus
The expectation when I was a kid was that you stand on your own two feet and not whine about what is owed to you.
YES!

The playing field is not level. Some will never be able to afford or qualify for an advanced education. Some will seem to have a downhill, greased track to slide on and everything will come easy. But all need an attitude to be independent, live their lives and get on with it without whining.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:54 AM   #46
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

I put two kids through college. Basically, we told them we would cover the full cost of state college, tuition, room, board and books for four years. Including a semester abroad for both of them, it probably cost us close to $150,000 altogether. I will say we were in our mid 40's and almost financially independent at the time they started.

son #1 took advantage and got a good paying job with no debt at age 22.
son #2 went to a private engineering school, got a good paying job and after grants graduated with $12,000 in debt in four years (he was 21 at graduation), which he is repaying. We also gave them old cars which they fixed up with their dad and drove the first couple of years they worked to save money.

What about forgiving the loan short term until she graduates? And setting clear rules for the future about what you will give her. We are talking about close to $120,000 by the time you are done for her, is another $7,000 that much of a difference?

There are a lot of lonely old people out there who would do things differently if they had the chance. Spoiling kids without limits is a bad idea, sending them off to struggle when you have the chance to help is also a bad idea. and sending them to a school with expenses so high probably puts them in close proximity to kids who have tons of money from dear old daddy and mummy. It is like living in a neighborhood of people much richer than you, keeping up with the lifestyle will make you broke.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 11:59 AM   #47
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 12:03 PM   #48
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
Come on Ha, this argument is just plain weird.

(Along with Al, I worry about overpopulation. More "never borns" the better , given all the children most of us could have had).
With respect for your position Martha, I think your argument is weird. If we in the US are suffering from overpopulation, why are we importing poor people from all over the world?

Someone somewhere is having the kids that will wind up in the US. It may as well be me was and is my POV.

Ha

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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 12:19 PM   #49
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
With respect for your position Martha, I think your argument is weird. If we in the US are suffering from overpopulation, why are we importing poor people from all over the world?

Someone somewhere is having the kids that will wind up in the US. It may as well be me was and is my POV.

Ha


And with respect to your position Ha, three hundred million people in the US seems like a lot to me. Even if we had more people in the US, poor people from the rest of the world would want to come here if "here" is better than "there." Unless, I suppose, we simply produced a lot more poor people here.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 12:47 PM   #50
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by youbet
YES!

The playing field is not level. Some will never be able to afford or qualify for an advanced education. Some will seem to have a downhill, greased track to slide on and everything will come easy. But all need an attitude to be independent, live their lives and get on with it without whining.
I have no problem with that statement at all. I just don't think it has much to do with whether a parent should do what he can to fund school.

I think all parents have a moral obligation to do the best by their kids they can, regardless of their circumstances. Someone just scraping by simply could not spend as much as I have for their kids' education. But someone who makes as much money as me and chooses to make their kids pay for their education so the kids will learn self sufficiency - pardon me but that is one king sized A-hole.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 01:10 PM   #51
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

I would suggest to the OP that he sit down and explain to his daughter what would happen in the real world had she borrowed the same $7K on a credit card or bank personal loan, which I think is roughly as follows:

1. She would probably accumulate late fees and/or jacked interest rates.
2. She would eventually be contacted by the creditor.
3. If she contacted the creditor, she could probably work out a payment plan.
4. Any forgiven debt would generate taxable income.
5. The debt could be discharged in bankruptcy, but then she'd have a harder time borrowing money.

If I were the dad in this case, I think I would, as the creditor, wait and hope for #3 for a while, but if I ran out of patience I would probably contact her and say "Here is the balance, I can either discharge it and I won't lend to you for another 7 years, or we can set up a payment plan."

Also, I think overall it depends a lot on the kid. Some kids will take advantage of a parent's graciousness and other's will appreciate it. I think that would sway my decisions.

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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 02:16 PM   #52
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff

I think all parents have a moral obligation to do the best by their kids they can, regardless of their circumstances.
Sure can't argue with that! In fact, I'd call it an understatement.

Giving money or material objects is easy, if you have the money. I'm not knocking it, heck I did it! But, the tough one to do the best by the kids is giving them time, being with them.

Some of the toughest decisions of my life involved balancing career, hobbies, personal goals, etc., vs. family time. Deciding to write a check for junior to go to the school of his choice......easy!
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 06:43 PM   #53
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

And what are the childrenís obligations to the parents who are trying to help them get through College?

Many parents who think their children are going to college find out they don't or don't complete it after much money has been spent.

And I am not yet convinced that a college degree is required to be successful today. I think it's usually helpful to have one though. Many degree requiring jobs donít pay very well considering how much the degree costs. Teaching perhaps?

A degree is not an entitlement to a good pay check, it takes a little more. Hard work, a good attitude, picking an in demand field ect.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-24-2006, 08:37 PM   #54
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
I think all parents have a moral obligation to do the best by their kids they can, regardless of their circumstances. Someone just scraping by simply could not spend as much as I have for their kids' education. But someone who makes as much money as me and chooses to make their kids pay for their education so the kids will learn self sufficiency - pardon me but that is one king sized A-hole.
Hmmm, I have mixed feelings on the subject. As someone who quite reasonably can expect to retire in his 40s, I feel an obligation to provide for my children. That includes bringing them up to the point that they can make their way in the world as self-sufficient adults. But does that mean catering to their every whim and deliveringthem life on a gold plate? I think not. FWIW, 90+% of the people I have sen who were handed a cushy life on a silver platter ended up undirected, unfocused and somehow lacking in character on a very fundamental basis. So I think that my responsibility to my kids includes getting them through some of life's hard lessons without there being long term consequences.

But I don't think this is helping T-Al with his quandry. Al, did you decide what to do?
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-25-2006, 02:30 AM   #55
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
. . . I think all parents have a moral obligation to do the best by their kids they can, regardless of their circumstances. Someone just scraping by simply could not spend as much as I have for their kids' education. But someone who makes as much money as me and chooses to make their kids pay for their education so the kids will learn self sufficiency - pardon me but that is one king sized A-hole.
Wow. I agree with you on most issues, donheff. But it seems to me that some parents might think that a child would get more out of an education they earned and worked for than from a free ride. It might not be right for all children or for all parents, but I think I've met a number of career college students who would have been better served by parents who made the ride less free.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-25-2006, 07:05 AM   #56
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Brewer & Sqeee: I may not be far from where you are coming from. I think kids need to work and learn the value of a buck. Both of ours worked in both HS and college. We never threw cars at them, or expensive clothes (although that is relative), or large allowances. Its college I am hung up on. I think a college degree is only a bit more of a basic than a HS degree was 50 years ago. If you can afford to cover room, board, and tuition I think you should. Why should your kids start out life with a pile of loans dragging like an anchor?

I don't think any of us "owe" our kids an expensive private school education. But covering them at a state university (even community college if we are not well off) seems like part of a reasonable send off. I would also acknowledge that spending time with your kids (someone else mentioned this a while back) is just as important. It may make sense to ER in time to be there fully through the teen years, even if that means you have less $ to spend on their college education. But I still think the best balance would be to try to ensure that you can at least get them to a state school without a big loan debt.

By the way T-Al, you are clearly doing well by your daughter. Your question doesn't involve the basics, it concerns how best to deal with an unusual loan situation without spoiling her or abandoning her -- a tough situation with no best answer.
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-25-2006, 07:15 AM   #57
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

We came up with a"system" when our first born graduated from high school. No real science - just seemed fair. We split everything 50/50.
The kid had to come up with their half any way they could (loans and work).
I actually got off pretty cheap as my son ended up not going until years later and by then he was on his own and got lots of "free" assistance
(poverty level). My oldest daughter went to a real expensive private school
but had scholarships. Youngest daughter you know about. Wish I'd had more input. She's already worried about her loans and she just graduated in June.

JG
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-25-2006, 08:15 AM   #58
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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Originally Posted by sgeeeee
Wow. I agree with you on most issues, donheff. But it seems to me that some parents might think that a child would get more out of an education they earned and worked for than from a free ride. It might not be right for all children or for all parents, but I think I've met a number of career college students who would have been better served by parents who made the ride less free.
I agree with sgeee (a rare, if slight, disagreeemtn with donhoff for me too). I doubt I would've studied so much anthropology if I'd had loans to pay back : And even though my son owed $20k when he got his degree, he's having no trouble paying it off on a middle school teacher's salary, and saving $20k besides (over 5 years). When I consider how poorly off I was at his age, he's lookin' good to me. I guess my particular form of child-coddling took place when my kids were littluns--I nursed them for 2.5 years apiece (sorry, don;t mean to gross anyone out!), I didn't work outside the home until they were both in elementary school, then I worked at a mother's hours job (9-2) until they were both in middle school--thereby delaying my professional career until I was almost 40. And DD started college just a couple years later!
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-25-2006, 10:34 PM   #59
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff

<snip>

By the way, that reminds me about my son. He kept dropping classes and extending his stay (chip off the old block - 6 year man). So I made him take on a student loan to cover a portion of the final year. After he got out and was successfully paying it back I stepped in and paid it off. He is now 32, owns a home and is living below his means.

<snip>
Dad? Is that you?

Same thing with me in college...

heheh, from my personal experience... Shortly after college, I borrowed $4k from my parents for part of a house downpayment. I paid 'em back $1500 or so, and slacked off. My parents haven't forgiven me of the debt, just renegotiated the terms ... to start payments again when they retire in 3 years. So, it seems fair that you shouldn't ever forgive the debt, just have her pay a modest amount in the meantime and more when she has a job (higher paying).

-CC
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue
Old 10-26-2006, 06:17 AM   #60
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Re: Your Input on Teenager/Money Issue

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So, it seems fair that you shouldn't ever forgive the debt, just have her pay a modest amount in the meantime and more when she has a job (higher paying).

-CC
Paying off DS's loan was a karma thing - I borrowed $500 from my parents to buy a motorcycle to get to work during a year I took off from college and never paid it back. And I was the responsible kid - my parents always consulted with me about the impact of the 60s on my brothers
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