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Old 08-17-2008, 05:16 PM   #21
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different people, different readings - unlike you and Ha i thought the obit was written without venom and was calmly put. Sounded less in anger than in sorrow. Probably wouldn't have bothered with an obit were i so unlucky to have been in a similiar situation, but can understand the attempt for "closure" (it's the in thing, doncha know).
You're right about the different perspectives, closure for example, sounds to my ears like "I won! I won!".

Whoever wrote Dolores' obit would have proven themselves a better human being with the use of grace and decorum.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:27 PM   #22
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Read somewhere years ago that people often do foolish things at the time of a death in the family and ought to be given a pass.

Makes me wonder how abusive she was, maybe this is the cleaned-up version, understatement? The obit writer reverses the old cliche that people who have no children contribute nothing to society, so many angles to this. I like to read obits for their creative writing content, this one takes the cake.

Gives me new perspective on an SOB who insisted on no funeral and no obit.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:27 PM   #23
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by all means, only take personally anything i say if it happens to strike home. meanwhile, i am a man who lives by my own convictions. mom & i had hugely deep discussions, mutually influencing and teaching each other throughout our lives together.

dad & i did not have such opportunity because he always ran away from family. but now that i have cornered him at the age of 80 when he has finally realized his desire for family, i still don't hold back on becoming the person i am to be while my remaining parent lives. just like i won't let him get away without growing up right alongside me.

my grandfather was from a huge entertainment family and lived his life as a footloose playboy, resulting in some serious damage to dad. i'm just learning some of these stories now and here's my recent no-bars-held-back response to dad who has, throughout our lives, inflicted that bitterness on his children...



we grow more and more completely by talking to each other, children and their parents, not by whispering or flaunting our later achievements at graves.
Who is taking anything personally? I just asked you a simple question friend
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:01 PM   #24
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yes, i got that. but you originally asked "Who are talking too?" so i was just following through & playing along with that theme. nothing up my sleeves, no hidden agenda, nothing else intended. just a little dry humor sans smiley face.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:23 PM   #25
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yes, i got that. but you originally asked "Who are talking too?" so i was just following through & playing along with that theme. nothing up my sleeves, no hidden agenda, nothing else intended. just a little dry humor sans smiley face.
As Justin would say, "This is sarcasm."

Tongue-in-cheek smiley included...
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:02 PM   #26
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well, i suppose it would be only it's not. i think most people don't use the word sarcasm correctly. here is webster definition:

Quote:
1: a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain 2 a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
accordingly, it would be sarcastic if my intention was to hurt. but mostly my tongue in cheek is just dry mouth.

even when humor cuts, to label it sarcastic, you'd first have to determine if the intention was a stab in the back to make you bleed or surgical slice to remove a tumor.

also it might be sarcasm when striking out from pain perceived as inflicted as in this quote which i've posted elsewhere:

"sarcasm: the last refuge of modest & chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invated."~~fyodor dostoyevsky
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Old 08-17-2008, 07:09 PM   #27
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One of the unique things about this board I enjoy. We have so many intelligent folks who respond on the various subjects. How refreshing!

I appreciate that!
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:26 PM   #28
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Lazy woud be good person to have at your dinner party.

I know it drives Nords up the wall, but I've found, as did Justin, that sometimes what is posted as humor, or irony, or satire, can be misconstrued...

I probably abuse the smiley feature.
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:29 PM   #29
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Not me, I don't use nearly enough smilies or exclamation marks, or so Rich told me--I can only imagine what Nords thinks... !!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-17-2008, 08:39 PM   #30
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Great teeth!

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Old 08-17-2008, 08:50 PM   #31
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What nasty vindictive kids. This poor woman had so many children that she might have had trouble getting time to sit down for 10 minutes once a week. She raised umpteen healthy, fertile children, and will very likely be what Richard Dawkins calls an ancestor, or someone whose genes will be alive many years and perhaps even centuries from now.

What do these brats want, egg in their beer?

Ha
All that and dumb, too. Since she brought them into the world, she indeed made a large contribution to society, unless, of course, they have no hobbies, make no contributions to society, and rarely have a kind word or deed for anyone.
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Old 08-17-2008, 09:23 PM   #32
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We lost our mother after a 10-year battle with breast cancer. It started when I was a teen and ended in my mid-20s. I'm pretty confident that my reactive/combative approach to workplace & personal relations came out of her attempts to raise us. However we never really had a chance to get to know each other as adults, so we probably should give each other a pass on this one.

My experiences pale in comparison to those of my spouse, who's spent a lifetime recovering from the upbringing inflicted on her. What's tragic is that even today her parents tell their grandkid all their cute stories about raising Mom, who feels that it's not appropriate to share her side of those stories with someone who's not old enough to appreciate the contrast. We'll wait until our kid is raising her own.

I used to think that spouse was over-reacting a little. Her parents seemed like OK people, and how could she be such a harsh judge of their parenting attempts? Then they moved from the east coast into our Hawaii rental home and we spent six years getting to know each other all too well better. Today I feel in need of a little therapy myself, so spouse and I have a nice mutual-support group going.

I see nothing wrong with that obituary. The recipient spent years sowing what she reaped.

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I know it drives Nords up the wall, but I've found, as did Justin, that sometimes what is posted as humor, or irony, or satire, can be misconstrued...
I probably abuse the smiley feature.
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Not me, I don't use nearly enough smilies or exclamation marks, or so Rich told me--I can only imagine what Nords thinks... !!!!!!!!!!
I see communicating without emoticons as a challenge-- a Luddite reversion to a higher, more difficult standard. But it's my challenge and y'all are free to emote as you see fit. And it's just one little quirk-- I prefer a keyboard to a typewriter or a quill pen.

My exception on emoticons was SG. I felt that he always expected he could slip in the knife and maybe saw it back & forth a little, getting away with it as long as he followed up with three or four smilies. After all it was all just in good clean humorous fun. "Sorry about the bloodstains! "
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:01 AM   #33
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I see communicating without emoticons as a challenge-- a Luddite reversion to a higher, more difficult standard. But it's my challenge and y'all are free to emote as you see fit. And it's just one little quirk-- I prefer a keyboard to a typewriter or a quill pen.

My exception on emoticons was SG. I felt that he always expected he could slip in the knife and maybe saw it back & forth a little, getting away with it as long as he followed up with three or four smilies. After all it was all just in good clean humorous fun. "Sorry about the bloodstains! "
It is easy for somebody with the writing ability to make Navy life sound like a particularly funny SNL skitch in one post, a white knuckle adventure in another post, and a parable for the ages in third to forsake emoticons.

For us mere hacks who struggle to get the nouns and verbs to agree, leave out words, and generally butcher the language , the emoticon is like garlic and butter a wonderful little invention . When used in moderation they generally help make my point.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:34 PM   #34
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I think some people are getting the wrong idea about this book.

For myself, my dad passed away suddenly when I was 25. We had a healthy relationship, and I miss him. But because he died, I re-examined my own health, and realized I was really fat, and that might shorten my own life. It's not like these truths weren't out there before, they just didn't have the same level of importance.

My dad's passing really spurred on my weight loss of 70 pounds. I wasn't fat because he was alive. But this is the type of "death benefit" the book is talking about. I'm much healthier now because of my own actions, but the decision to lose weight may not have occurred (or at least occurred as soon) without my dad's loss.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:59 PM   #35
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Deep personal details ahead

My parents did their best and that was pretty good.

They were certainly not abusive in any way (to each other or to children) and were loving and faithful to each other, and worked hard to support their family.

I apparently inherited my 'attitude' from my father (I think we both border on Asperger syndrome); it seems to be more 'acceptable' in men than in women.

My older brother spent most of his life dying from cancer and thus absorbed most of the family's time, money, and effort for many years (of course as an adult I realize that this was not exactly his idea of a good time).

I freely forgive everybody involved, because 'stuff' happens; "and the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep".
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:06 PM   #36
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my problem with the premise of the book as described in what i read from just the referenced link on this thread is the new age bent which i consider substituting convenience for substance.

i do not mean to take away from the wonder that people find strength & growth in personal trajedy. that's completely wonderful and there's no denying it. accomplishment can be a salve for the pain of separation while it can hurt when you rip off a bandaid. a wound can heal but the loss is forever and while a benefit might help hide the scar, it will not take it away.

and it might even add to the wound site a bit of scar tissue in the form of guilt and disappointment that efforts were not put into making such accomplishments before our parents were struck dead that we might have shared that with them.

so it amounts to a cover up of a cover up. neurosis on top of neurosis. i couldn't be who i am because of my parents only now i can not share who i am with my parents. it is a little sad; life is a little sad.

ps. khan, that was beautifully put.
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:21 PM   #37
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Mom always liked you best.
My Sister voted Republican, ate nuts and twigs, power walked, lived in Vermont and raised three kids while driving the pol's batty until they all got thru the Naval Academy. Plus she 'knew' what you should do!

I ah er - lived in New Orleans and was near the Gulf Coast casino's.

I don't know if she liked me best - or she didn't realize the Pat's were on the their way to football glory.

heh heh heh - when he was living my Father visited for the first time after I transferred to New Orleans(instead of me going there). Turns out he did Shore Patrol in New Orleans in WWII. . Wanted to know if 'The Bucket of Blood' was still around.
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