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Old 01-12-2010, 04:28 PM   #41
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Now, post recession, talk is more of sub 4% WR's, cushions, safety nets, reserves, padded budgets, cushions for the cushions and the thrill of sitting home and not spending being better than the enjoyment of travel or entertainment.

Different times I guess.


So many times over my lifetime I have seen that what we believe, what seems important, what interests us and even how we interpret reality is pretty much carried in on the wind.

Ha
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:21 PM   #42
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SIRE vs FIRE once again, never goes away, usually doesn't get addressed. And that's what's wrong with the article as many have pointed out. I think we should all have FIRE or SIRE in our signatures...but I won't hold my breath.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:06 PM   #43
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SIRE vs FIRE once again, never goes away, usually doesn't get addressed. And that's what's wrong with the article as many have pointed out. I think we should all have FIRE or SIRE in our signatures...but I won't hold my breath.
i am thinking almost everyone in the US that retires will have some form of "secure income", most often SS. so doesn't that make almost everyone who retires early SIRE? i know i know, i have heard it all before, "but i am not counting on SS to be able to RE". soo what? the SS is still "secure income" whether you are counting on it or not, whether you are receiving it yet or not.

-start of SIRE vs FIRE rant-

i think people who are FI with/because of a "secure income" stream are still FI but i have gotten the impression that not everyone on here thinks so. for some reason to some people it seems that if you arent FI only based on a big pile of cash (but no "secure income" streams whether you need them or not) you arent FI. (an aside: soo if someone who FIREd with a big pile of cash buys an annuity they are no longer FIREd but now SIREd?) well i dont agree. FI means to me that you have sufficient financial resources (including "secure income" streams) to not ever have to work again for money to be able to live. i have also noticed that being FI isnt enough for some people on here to retire. some people want to be able to spend even more than what is needed to live so they continue to work well after they are FI. not that there is anything wrong with that as it is their life and they can work if they like. the problem comes when they redefine the term FI to mean sufficient financial resources to supply their desired lifestyle instead of the definition above.

- end of rant-

i am thinking FI is closer to what is implied by this article even though there are people on here that wouldnt be comfy RE on that amount.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:37 PM   #44
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i think people who are FI with/because of a "secure income" stream are still FI but i have gotten the impression that not everyone on here thinks so.
FWIW, I consider myself FI even though I have a non-COLA pension that will initially cover 50% of my expected expenses. For me, living on non-earned income is FI. My DB pension is administered by Prudential and it doesn't matter whether it is my employer that purchases the annuity or gives me a lump sum and I buy an annuity from an insurance company like Prudential.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:49 PM   #45
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But if the consensus around here is that you can never have enough money to retire because sh!t happens, then it is time for me to stop wasting my time and bid you all farewell.
I hope you don't leave. I think the general economic woes have turned more than a few of us into pessimists in the past year and a half. Things were much sunnier here in 2007 and it seemed that we feared less. I expect a bolder spirit to return if the economy continues to improve.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:17 PM   #46
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All I read nowadays are stories of people with multimillion dollar portfolios who think that $1M is chump change and spend their time worrying about every possible financial disaster no matter how unlikely. That is of course your prerogative. But if the consensus around here is that you can never have enough money to retire because sh!t happens, then it is time for me to stop wasting my time and bid you all farewell.

Do not leave ! You really inspire me with how balanced you are with saving and spending . I think you have found the perfect balance . If people think the worse that could happen is to lose their money they must not be reading the Health posts .
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:47 PM   #47
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The more I read here the more I get depressed. I thought I could retire on far less than $300,00.00. Now you people are saying a million is not enough. I am planning on going out of here just like when I got here, with nothing. Everywhere I go I find out that it takes so much just to live with the basics. I made to age 62 making way less than most here, I mean way way less. I have one thing that is on my side. I am happy with what I have. I owe nothing. No body but DW and me. I also have ways of making a few $ as long as I am healthy. Heck, I think I am already retired and I am still working. I watch TV a lot at night and I see where people are buying homes that range from $500,00.00 and up. A home like that where I live is a mansion. Are we in the same country or what ? I am rambling so goodnight for now
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:06 PM   #48
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If hyperinflation can wipe off $1M, it can wipe off $10M just as easily. I find it ironic how this board has evolved over time. I used to come here to read inspiring stories about adventurers and risk takers retiring on $500K-$1M or less in a fishing camp on Lake Pontchartrain or on a sailboat circumnavigating the globe. All I read nowadays are stories of people with multimillion dollar portfolios who think that $1M is chump change and spend their time worrying about every possible financial disaster no matter how unlikely. That is of course your prerogative. But if the consensus around here is that you can never have enough money to retire because sh!t happens, then it is time for me to stop wasting my time and bid you all farewell.
No reason for you to leave! I doubt very much that my views represent any sort of consensus here; but more importantly I enjoy reading your posts. :-)

Now, $10M will not get wiped out as easily as $1M, but yes, given enough hyper-inflation, it will get wiped out too. $30k/year expenses, 10% real returns with 20% inflation wipes out $1M in ~15 years. $10M will last you 40.

Years ago I used to think $600k would have me set for life (I naively had figured 5% interest at $30k/year would give me more than I needed and left overs would be enough to cover inflation that is "never" high in US). Then I realized it's not even close when I started playing with numbers and learned a bit of history.

I do come from a country which experienced hyper-inflation (think 200%, 300%, 900% inflation year after year - you can imagine how people would be happy with the current ~10% inflation there). I am sure that colors my views (or is it called "experience"?), and this will be the reason I may never "KNOW" that $1M is going to be enough unless I find some good ways to protect against such conditions... Sorry I can't give you an inspirational story though as my parents lost a lot of their savings to the hyper-inflation.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:17 PM   #49
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The more I read here the more I get depressed. I thought I could retire on far less than $300,00.00. Now you people are saying a million is not enough...
Why get depressed? If you are happy with what you have, you should feel good and pity the "poor folks" (count me in there )who keep on toiling because they have too much "stuff", or are too scared of losing their lifestyle.

Heh heh heh... I keep telling myself and everybody else that as long as I have enough funds left to get a class-C RV, I should be all set. Heh heh heh... I was surprised to find out that a nice used one costs less than a new car. Spend a bit more, then you can have a roomy used class A.

Can you believe that? I can have my "backup" house for less than people pay for their car. Of course, it would hurt like crazy to fill it up to drive anywhere, but hey, let's get a roof over my head before we talk about traveling here.



PS. Used diesel class As cost more, but I was surprised how inexpensive the used gas models were. Low mileage too, as previous owners couldn't afford to drive them very far. But since driving is optional, the low gas mileage is not insurmountable. Heh heh heh...
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:52 PM   #50
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i think people who are FI with/because of a "secure income" stream are still FI but i have gotten the impression that not everyone on here thinks so. for some reason to some people it seems that if you arent FI only based on a big pile of cash (but no "secure income" streams whether you need them or not) you arent FI. (an aside: soo if someone who FIREd with a big pile of cash buys an annuity they are no longer FIREd but now SIREd?) well i dont agree. FI means to me that you have sufficient financial resources (including "secure income" streams) to not ever have to work again for money to be able to live.
I agree! Lots of "pension" envy around here. Hey, it's compensation in benefit form not $$$. Same with my retiree health care benefit, part of compensation. It was not a gift. Simple.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:53 PM   #51
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I echo what everyone else has said FIREdreamer...don't go.

This is a discussion forum. Thoughts and experiences are shared here so that we may have a better chance of fitting all of the pieces of the puzzle together. Some pieces fit nicely...and others can be discarded. The last remaining piece has to be created by each individual as no one knows us better than ourselves.



Shhhh...don't tell anyone this, but I'm an old phart. I need new ideas and optimism from you.
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Old 01-12-2010, 08:56 PM   #52
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Not really depressed, wrong choice of words. What I really like about being 62 is that I can leave work if I want. SS and State pension will be enough ?? Who knows how much is enough. Also I have a little stuck back in case the RV breaks down. For now I continue to work and take everyday one day at a time. When the time is right for me to start the RV up I will know it. You people that say a million is not enough to live on then just send it to me, I will show you how to live like a king. I got to put the wine away before I type the wrong words by mistake.
By the way, a co-worker of mine told me his mother lives on $900 a month and is happy. Go figure
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:00 PM   #53
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Sounds like you have an RV already! Gee, you are ahead of me. I am still looking for that smokin' deal.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:07 PM   #54
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Sounds like you have an RV already! Gee, you are ahead of me. I am still looking for that smokin' deal.
Hey, you got it wrong. You are supposed to buy one that is not smoking.

Ha
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:08 PM   #55
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But it matters not, if it ain't running. Who says I might have money for gas?
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:09 PM   #56
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Sounds like you have an RV already! Gee, you are ahead of me. I am still looking for that smokin' deal.
Here ya go! Act fast, they don't get much more smokin' than this........


Want to roast some hot dogs over this burning RV? | Motor Homes On Fire
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:13 PM   #57
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Eh! I said smoke. You show a lot of fire there!
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:18 PM   #58
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Errrr....... sorry.

Here's some smokin' RV's. The action doesn't start until half way in. Skip ahead.
You can really negotiate some sweet deals on this babies right after the race.





Edit: My apologies to OP (easysurfer) for this inappropriate diversion from the discussion topic.......
Please carry on with the intended discussion.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:45 PM   #59
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Layed off 1993, age 49, maybe 250k in resources(counting 50k rental duplex). Hindsight says I'm extremely happy it pissed me off(losing my job) so much I became an ER - cheap SOB with a personal best one yr never to be repeated 12k/yr budget. Love when we repost Monty Pythons Four Yorkshiremen - myself having attained the Zen of cheap bastardhood.

It was really painful suffering thru 1999-2009 with that 1 mil(give or take) portfolio gritting my teeth forcing myself to spend that 4% 40k give or take in ER.

Along the way a tiny non Cola pension(age55) and early SS(age62) and the fact I'm not getting any younger just forces me, I say forces me to endure the pain of spending all that money.

heh heh heh - Snow forced me to 'visit' New Orleans for 4 days - put on 7 lbs in three days of eating and they had unseasonable cold. 15 degrees yesterday morning when I left Bush La to drive back. And yes I stayed with friends and only picked up the tab for dinner twice - 23 mpg on the ole Chevy. I did splurge and take the Kansas turnpike(toll road) around the storm on the way down. .
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:48 PM   #60
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heh heh heh - Snow forced me to 'visit' New Orleans for 4 days ...
You cheated! I remember your post saying you would stay up "north".
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