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Old 01-12-2010, 09:58 PM   #61
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You cheated! I remember your post saying you would stay up "north".
Hmmm - how about I rationalize it as 'a long drive to go out and eat?'



heh heh heh - oysters on the half shell, fried catfish and crawfish tails, french fries with cheese, baked macaroni, sausage jamabalaya, crawfish pasta and ouie gooey for desert. And then the day I left we went to the Chinese buffett and ate shrimp - garlic, fried, boiled and in cold salad, baked catfish, etc - the usual New Orleans Chinese stuff except for Gina who ate Sushi.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:06 PM   #62
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I read this differently. Yes, having less than $1M can decrease satisfaction in retirement due to increasing financial worries. But if you remove the financial worries, you're still not going to find more than ~80% of people being able to be satisfied. In other words, 20% of people are always going to be dissatisfied, and money is neither the cause nor the solution.
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Old 01-12-2010, 11:11 PM   #63
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I read this differently. Yes, having less than $1M can decrease satisfaction in retirement due to increasing financial worries. But if you remove the financial worries, you're still not going to find more than ~80% of people being able to be satisfied. In other words, 20% of people are always going to be dissatisfied, and money is neither the cause nor the solution.
Admit it Harley, wouldn't you rather be a rich pissed-off-old-phart than just a pissed-off-old-phart ?

Ha
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:49 AM   #64
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Admit it Harley, wouldn't you rather be a rich pissed-off-old-phart than just a pissed-off-old-phart ?

Ha
Not if I can be just pissed-off in three years but it would take me ten or twelve to be pissed-off-and-rich!
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:06 AM   #65
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Ok, let me come out of my shell and put my 2 cents worth and it's not comming out of my $1 M either. I would and did retire on $1 M and yes it did worry me. Would I have done it again.............yes but with the same reluctance since I am....who I am. I'm no where near as worried as I was when I retired several years ago and I won't be as worried years down the road. I've learned to adjust to it.

FIREdreamer, I know exactly how you feel, as a matter of fact I've been in the same situation and left for couple weeks on end but I've always come back.........so far. I value your posts even though I may sit on the side lines. Keep them comming and don't worry so much about how much you have, rather what fun you'll have while it builds to $2 M........then....$3.....ha.....ha..!
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:34 AM   #66
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Hmmm - how about I rationalize it as 'a long drive to go out and eat?'



heh heh heh - oysters on the half shell, fried catfish and crawfish tails, french fries with cheese, baked macaroni, sausage jamabalaya, crawfish pasta and ouie gooey for desert. And then the day I left we went to the Chinese buffett and ate shrimp - garlic, fried, boiled and in cold salad, baked catfish, etc - the usual New Orleans Chinese stuff except for Gina who ate Sushi.
Cut it out!!!

Yes, anytime I spend a few hours in southern LA I go crazy with the food too and put on pounds. Although it's usually the Cajun area that pulls me in.

Audrey
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:23 PM   #67
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I agree! Lots of "pension" envy around here. Hey, it's compensation in benefit form not $$$. Same with my retiree health care benefit, part of compensation. It was not a gift. Simple.
Envy? I don't remember anyone suggesting pensions and/or retiree health care are gifts. The only things that make any difference for each of us, are our own assets and benefits.

Generous SIRE involves less risk than pure FIRE. Hopefully you'll concede that someone with a COLA'd pension and lifetime retiree healthcare has significant less risk than another person with neither.

But the point was, because the article did not quantify the extent of secure income/retiree health care at all, all we can conclude is there is a point of diminishing security/happiness (surprise). The $1MM threshold is meaningless as a "sweet spot for satisfaction and retirement" without quantifying SI.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:33 PM   #68
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I hit $1MM a year ago and will retire with a small pension shortly. At 58 I could keep working in the boiler room but my peers are looking tired and out of shape, so I figured it was time to leave before it happened to me I'm nervous about inflation and taxes, and there's no family or SO to rely on.
But I'd rather risk the unknown than die younger than necessary. That made the decision to leave easier to make, and I've come to feel like I will have enough, whatever that turns out to be.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:10 PM   #69
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But the point was, because the article did not quantify the extent of secure income/retiree health care at all, all we can conclude is there is a point of diminishing security/happiness (surprise). The $1MM threshold is meaningless as a "sweet spot for satisfaction and retirement" without quantifying SI.
as i said before i think more can be concluded based on the percentage of people with satisfied retirements and the smaller percentage of people with significant DB pensions (as i said in earlier posts $1 million is still the sweet spot and $1 million is still the sweet spot) especially since the very high satisfaction level actually starts at $500k and across the board the satisfaction level is higher than the those with DB level.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:17 PM   #70
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One can certainly be happy with the income from a portfolio of $1M or less.

The reason that many of us, myself included, fail to attain that happiness is called "hedonic adaptation".
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:36 PM   #71
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One can certainly be happy with the income from a portfolio of $1M or less.

The reason that many of us, myself included, fail to attain that happiness is called "hedonic adaptation".
Riiiight! It's in our Declaration of Independance - 'Pursuit of Happiness' - we're not supposed to catch it or at least practice catch and release if we do.

Besides nobody is going to cheat me out of the shear joy of whinning - after all I have this Curmudgeon certificate downloaded from this very forum suitable for framing.

heh heh heh - although in ER sometimes it's hard to take oneself serious.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:43 PM   #72
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Riiiight! It's in our Declaration of Independance - 'Pursuit of Happiness' - we're not supposed to catch it or at least practice catch and release if we do.
I like it! "Catch and release". I have done that so many times myself.

I feel that I should have a curmudgeon certificate too, being a genuine grouch.


PS. Being grumpy does not have anything to do with taking oneself seriously. In fact, I do not take ANYONE seriously.


PPS. In school, I occasionally got into trouble for not taking the teachers seriously.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:25 PM   #73
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Riiiight! It's in our Declaration of Independance - 'Pursuit of Happiness' - we're not supposed to catch it
Ah, but a man's reach should always exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?

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Old 01-15-2010, 04:13 PM   #74
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A phrase that always pops into my mind in these sort of discussions is "consumption smoothing." I think it was Burns and Kotlikoff. In my case, DW and I have some fairly decent pension income streams kicking in over the next 10 years. We also have investments that total less than $1m. The income streams are either not COLA'd, or are imperfectly COLA'd. The challenge is to figure out how to make it all last without doing with significantly less while we are younger and hopefully more able to enjoy it.

I have been retired since 54 (I am very nearly 57). DW and I plan to mostly live off of these income streams that kick in at various points for the next 10 years. But they are from 2 countries, imperfectly or non-COLA'd etc. Hopefully, the investments at that point will be able to provide inflation-proofing, if not even a bit more. But there are so many variables--market returns, inflation, currency exchange rates, change in tax laws in 2 countries, etc. etc.

I don't think that I particularly feel any more financially secure than I might feel with far less pension income and a much bigger portfolio. If anything, I may have less control over where I am in 30 years than if I had more retirement savings and less pension.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:15 AM   #75
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In my case, I keep working because I like my job(most days) and the Monday-Friday routine gives structure to my life. I have the amount in question several times over plus real estate on top of that and could quit work and collect a COLA'd government pension now. The day I walk is the day I get fed up with the winters and bureaucracy, and also have a definite activity I want to pursue. If I disliked my job and it was stressing me out overly, I would now at 55 of course. I am also cheap in some respects and am seduced somewhat by the fully paid health benefits. It is nice to know I have the option to walk anytime on those infrequent days when the job is a PITA. Calms me down a bit for awhile and by then the crisis has passed.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:50 AM   #76
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It's darned hard to leave this world just as your net worth hits zero.

It's kinda like winning a war with the last bullet in your arsenal. Doesn't happen. Can't happen. You either run out of bullets too soon, thereby losing the war-----or have truckloads of them when it's over.

Several years ago, while doing planning towards FIRE, I did a lot of playing with the FIRECALC equivalent that my company's 401K plan had. There was really no happy middling ground where I died with a generous estate. Either we ran out of money before we died, or the estate was large and still growing at the end. It was quite sensitive to the input parameters. Really bang-bang. A set that looked good turned out to crash if you changed assuptions about returns even a little bit.

When my wife asked about the results, I told her that it looks like either we'd be living with the kids at the end, or we'd be leaving them with a few million dollars. She voted the latter.
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Old 01-16-2010, 08:59 AM   #77
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When my wife asked about the results, I told her that it looks like either we'd be living with the kids at the end, or we'd be leaving them with a few million dollars. She voted the latter.
The standard answer is something like "Sorry Honey we can't afford it, you'll have to keep working"
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:55 AM   #78
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The standard answer is something like "Sorry Honey we can't afford it, you'll have to keep working"
I hear that a lot.
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:16 AM   #79
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It's darned hard to leave this world just as your net worth hits zero.

It's kinda like winning a war with the last bullet in your arsenal. Doesn't happen. Can't happen. You either run out of bullets too soon, thereby losing the war-----or have truckloads of them when it's over.

Several years ago, while doing planning towards FIRE, I did a lot of playing with the FIRECALC equivalent that my company's 401K plan had. There was really no happy middling ground where I died with a generous estate. Either we ran out of money before we died, or the estate was large and still growing at the end. It was quite sensitive to the input parameters. Really bang-bang. A set that looked good turned out to crash if you changed assuptions about returns even a little bit.

When my wife asked about the results, I told her that it looks like either we'd be living with the kids at the end, or we'd be leaving them with a few million dollars. She voted the latter.
I like your "bullets" analogy.

I too have been amazed at the differences in portfolio survival with just a small change to the inflation rate or investment return. It makes me realize the importance of flexibility; being able and willing to shift on the fly. I plan to enter retirement expecting to cut back as needed when I see trouble on the horizon. Some years may involve lots of travel and fine dining, others may be along the lines of "heat and eat", read books and cook at home.

I have no plans to live in a state of paranoia over hyper-inflation, EMP nuclear strikes, civil war, super depressions, etc.
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Old 01-16-2010, 11:27 AM   #80
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I also like the "bullet" analogy.

However, I sometimes wonder if I am spraying my bullets like with a Tommy gun, shooting from the hip.

Better hunker down, count my bullets, and shoot sparingly like a sharp shooter. Maybe a good RV if I happen to spot one. Heh heh heh...
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