2 Yr Salary Freeze for Fed Employees

[youbet]

President Obama has announced a 2 year freeze on fed employee salaries. It appears to be a 2 year elimination of automatic COLA's. Seniority progressions and promotions will still occur. So, not a very dramatic proposal, but perhaps a step in the right direction. The freeze would need to be approved by Congress.

Citing deficit, Obama freezing federal worker pay - Yahoo! Finance=

The two-year freeze would apply to all civilian federal employees, including those working at the Department of Defense, but would not affect military personnel. The freeze, which requires congressional approval, is expected to save more than $5 billion in savings over two years, $28 billion over five years and more than $60 billion over 10 years, White House officials said

The pay freeze would not affect bonuses or step increases for federal employees

 

[brewer12345]

So all of a sudden military personnel are not feddle gubmint employees? So whose employees are they? China's?

 

[Gone4Good]

$2B doesn't put much of a dent in the $1.3T deficit. And I have to think that preemptive, unilateral, concessions like this will actually make a real bi-partisan deal on the budget a bit harder. If you concede all the things you're willing to give up before you even get to the bargaining table, there is nothing left to bargain over. This seems like a pretty boneheaded, and ultimately counterproductive, tactical move.

 

[rescueme]

So all of a sudden military personnel are not feddle gubmint employees? So whose employees are they? China's?

A long, long time ago I was in the military (upon invitation from Uncle Sam), and worked alongside those of the GS rating vs. my E"x" rating, at the time.

Their salary scale was much greater than mine, even though doing basically the same tasks.

The only time I was close to what their scale was when I was getting "shift differential" (e.g. combat pay) for a year in my SEA "vacation".

IMHO, the military deserves whatever they can get (regardless of assumed employer) as far as I'm concerned.

 

[ziggy29]

$2B doesn't put much of a dent in the $1.3T deficit.

So if any individual initiative doesn't yield much deficit reduction, it shouldn't even be put on the table? What if it's the least devastating to the largest number of people to make 100 different $2 billion cuts than two different $100 billion cuts?

I'm all for the shared sacrifice of everyone needing to step up and taking a little of the hit rather than a few political punching bags taking all the pain whether through spending cuts or tax increases (or both) - while the usual sacred cows go unscathed.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Window Dressing

While the 2 billion or so in cuts is helpful....

Unless they speak of additional taxes or cuts to SS or Medicare/Medicaid or Defense then they won't get very far in cutting the deficit.

 

[Gone4Good]

So if any individual initiative doesn't yield much deficit reduction, it shouldn't even be put on the table?

I think if you read the rest of the comment, you'll see for yourself that wasn't my point.

 

[youbet]

I find the fact that fed workers were scheduled to receive a 1.2% COLA-like increase in 2011 when SS recipients were to receive not a damn thing very interesting. And, btw, that's all that would be canceled under this proposal, the 2011 and the 2012 across the board salary matrix increases. Seniority based step increases, bonuses and promotions are all unaffected.

I like the spirit of the proposal, but as pointed out, the impact on fed employees is minimal and the savings to the fed budget small.

 

[ziggy29]

I think if you read the rest of the comment, you'll see for yourself that wasn't my point.

Just about everyone else in the workforce has endured the same 'unilateral' concessions like this, and most to a much larger degree than a two-year pay freeze (I'm on my third year of a pay freeze and I've had two raises for a total of 4% since 2004).

I'm pretty sure this is a trial balloon anyway, and a signal to the opposition that the president is willing to throw a bone to show bipartisanship. I suspect the goal is a political one, to show that the "other side" isn't working in bipartisan spirit if they don't offer up similar concessions and refuse to compromise at all.

 

[BigNick]

I like the spirit of the proposal, but as pointed out, the impact on fed employees is minimal and the savings to the fed budget small.

Sometimes the spirit is all you have. As a public sector employee, I accept that when times are great I will be behind my private sector peers, but that when they turn tough I will have my job security. I can't expect to have pay rises on top of that, especially when retail inflation is pretty modest.

A few months ago, the Spanish government announced a 5% salary cut for all staff. However, they also cut their own ministerial salaries by 15%, which helped credibility greatly. (Did I read that when Obama took office, he insisted that all White House staff take a 4-year freeze, or am I imagining it?)

 

[Bimmerbill]

I wonder if it will lead to feds retiring? I know a lot of folks still working to get their "high 3" salaries. I wonder if they will stick around now?

I think its a bad idea, and not just because I'm a fed employee. The Gov't is slow, so now that things are improving they make the cuts. They should have done this 2 years ago.

It will take them 2 years past the time when the economy is booming to reverse it.

 

[Khan]

Good idea. Now let's see congress critters go along with it.

 

[youbet]

I wonder if it will lead to feds retiring? I know a lot of folks still working to get their "high 3" salaries. I wonder if they will stick around now?

Won't those employees still receive seniority based step increases for having put in another year? Isn't it just the across-the-board 1.2% lifting of the entire pay matrix that is being canceled?

I'm just trying to be sure that everyone understands that just because the headline says salaries are "frozen," that isn't actually what is being proposed. The salary matrix will be frozen, but individuals will still move upward within it.

Or am I misunderstanding this from the article?


edit: See posts # 16 and #17 for explanations by Bimmerbill and W2R.

 

[Westernskies]

So if any individual initiative doesn't yield much deficit reduction, it shouldn't even be put on the table? What if it's the least devastating to the largest number of people to make 100 different $2 billion cuts than two different $100 billion cuts?

I'm all for the shared sacrifice of everyone needing to step up and taking a little of the hit rather than a few political punching bags taking all the pain whether through spending cuts or tax increases (or both) - while the usual sacred cows go unscathed.

+1

 

[brewer12345]

A long, long time ago I was in the military (upon invitation from Uncle Sam), and worked alongside those of the GS rating vs. my E"x" rating, at the time.

Their salary scale was much greater than mine, even though doing basically the same tasks.

The only time I was close to what their scale was when I was getting "shift differential" (e.g. combat pay) for a year in my SEA "vacation".

IMHO, the military deserves whatever they can get (regardless of assumed employer) as far as I'm concerned.

Now those folks seem mostly to be contractors and gubmint pay scales do not apply. So the grunts in the field are working with contractors who have little in the way of rules to follow and make 10 to 20X what the GI Joe in the next street over does.

 

[Bimmerbill]

By the time you are approaching retirement, most folks are at the 4 year mark between step (seniority) increases.

I'm at the 2 year mark, but that 2 years just reset due to DoD fooling with performance based pay systems. We converted back, now are in some sort of interim pay plan.

I don't know if this proposed pay freeze includes base salary adjustments or locality pay tho.

 

[W2R]

Won't those employees still receive seniority based step increases for having put in another year?

Not usually, unless they are in the first three years of their pay grade. The first three steps come one step per year, the second three take two years, and after that they take three years. After step 10, there are no more step increases unless you get a merit promotion to the next pay grade.

 

[youbet]

Not usually, unless they are in the first three years of their pay grade. The first three steps come one step per year, the second three take two years, and after that they take three years. After step 10, there are no more step increases unless you get a merit promotion to the next pay grade.

Bimmerbill and W3R, thanks for the explanation! I'm familiar with pay matrixes for public school teachers (DW was one) where there is usually an increase for each year of seniority up to 20 - 25 or more years, but I wasn't sure how the fed system worked.

So it sounds like some, but not all, fed employees will still be getting step increases but it depends on where they are in terms of time in grade. And, of course, it depends on whether Congress modifies the proposal or passes it at all.

 

[Bimmerbill]

It takes 16 years to progress thru all 10 steps of the GS system.

 

[mickj]

Merry Christmas!

 

[Independent]

I think I understand the politics. This is very popular with the public, it would certainly be in the next budget from Congress, Obama figures why let the R's get credit for it when he can get out in front on the issue.

I also think it's good policy. Yes, the direct dollars are small, but if you're going to sell spending cuts and/or tax increases it's good to have some feeling of shared sacrifice. It's hard to do that if the voters believe federal workers are a privileged class.

 

[martyb]

It takes 16 years to progress thru all 10 steps of the GS system.

Actually, I believe it takes 18 years. I'm only a GS-11 step 4, and since I just got my step 4 in August, I likely won't get another pay increase before I retire in 2 yrs. My pay is $63000. That doesn't seem like a giant paycheck considering the enormity of the defense contracts I am responsible for. Anybody ever heard of Patriot Missiles or THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Aerial Defense) missile systems? Those are just two of my programs. I am the only Quality Assurance person at my location for the THAAD system with regards to highly complex electronics components. I don't believe I'm overpaid for what I do and my level of responsibility. The crap you hear in the news is just that, crap. The numbers are very distorted. Most feds don't earn anywhere near the salaries that are being spewed.

 

[Khan]

Actually, I believe it takes 18 years. I'm only a GS-11 step 4, and since I just got my step 4 in August, I likely won't get another pay increase before I retire in 2 yrs. My pay is $63000. That doesn't seem like a giant paycheck considering the enormity of the defense contracts I am responsible for. Anybody ever heard of Patriot Missiles or THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Aerial Defense) missile systems? Those are just two of my programs. I am the only Quality Assurance person at my location for the THAAD system with regards to highly complex electronics components. I don't believe I'm overpaid for what I do and my level of responsibility. The crap you hear in the news is just that, crap. The numbers are very distorted. Most feds don't earn anywhere near the salaries that are being spewed.

The buggers also compare all federal salaries to all non-federal salaries. Nothing about equivalent jobs/responsibilities.

 

[mickj]

Of course the folks who do actual work for the Federal Government aren't overpaid. Its the 'policy makers' and appointees that get the real cash and perks.

 

[zinger1457]

Having worked in both the private sector and then for DOD it did seem to me that most Fed workers are too soft and somewhat isolated from the real world. Too many were quick to complain about minor things and had no appreciation for what they had. Job cuts and salary freezes are common place in the private sector. Once you have worked for a company that has gone through a major cutback in personnel, whether you survived or not, you have a different perspective on work life and what's important. Job security takes on a whole new meaning. That was probably the number one reason I took an engineering job with DOD. It's probably easy for me to say now because I'm retired but I would have no problem accepting a salary freeze if I was still working. It's much better then the alternative which is job cuts. Unfortunately what usually follows salary freezes is job cuts so welcome to the real world.