Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-07-2014, 03:04 PM   #21
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,327
I agree with some of the tips, not others. A lot of this advice is very different than The Millionaire Next Door series of books. Two jobs? That sure wasn't how most of the people in the books got rich. They usually had one career or business that paid well and enjoyed their free time. Invest in property? Sure if you know what you are doing but many people don't or we wouldn't have had all the foreclosures world wide these past several years. Do what you love? Most of our kids' friends who went to college for majors they loved without considering job prospects can't find work and are overqualified for Starbucks.
__________________

__________________
daylatedollarshort is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-07-2014, 03:53 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewood90712 View Post
Most of the forum members practice a lot of these things . The sad thing is, with our economy being a so called "Consumer Economy" it would collapse if most did the same.
This is the paradox of our financial lives... I don't often want to give advice because as a save/invest/indexer, I need the consumers/day-traders to continue their behaviors in order for my plan to succeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6miths View Post
'Get a second job'?! I just got rid of the original one! Doesn't really jib with the 'money doesn't buy happiness'. Work/life balance is the key. A 'fun job' or a volunteer 'job' maybe. A second job might make you a millionaire sooner but it might also make you unhappy, divorced, unhealthy... as well.
No way in hell would I get a second job, but then again, it's not aimed at me. It's meant to "increase your income." A better way to say it, or "get a higher paying job."

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
At the risk of starting a firestorm, the list left out the biggest reason I have a NW of over $1M: No kids. I am childfree and proud of it, and attribute that key lifestyle choice as by far the biggest reason I have a NW of over $1M.
While this is helping us achieve a big-time savings rate, I don't think it's mandatory. Certainly our NW of ~$1MM at age 37/33 is due, in part, to DINK status, we would've gotten there regardless. As it stands, if we end up with kiddos, we'll have a hell of a nice financial headstart on those who had kids early. Their kids may be out of the house earlier, and they may see grandkids and great-grandkids, but the savings and compounding time can never be made up either. I suspect we'll have the best of both worlds - a family and an early retirement. Hell, family may encourage earlier retirement: more time with the kiddos.
__________________

__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 04:15 PM   #23
Full time employment: Posting here.
MuirWannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
Whether children are "well worth it" is irrelevant to this discussion. (Parents are supposed to say that except on message boards such as "TruMomConfessions" and other similar sites.) Unless your kids are generating more income than expenses, they made your safety net smaller and reduced your net worth compared to if you had been childfree. We say the same things about people who spend money recklessly on cars, houses, vacations, restaurants, financial advisors, etc., all of which worsen one's financial position and make retirement tougher. I am simply adding children to that mix.
I guess you are spouse free as well. Logic is the same. Actually they can be worse than kids sometimes

But really, I don't think the equation is quite as simple as you are making it out to be. But it's good you are happy with your choice.
__________________
“Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.” John Muir
MuirWannabe is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 05:45 PM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Peoria
Posts: 325
I did the 2nd job thing for the better part of 17 years largely out of necessity (loads of medical bills insurance did not cover, then as a means to pay college tuition so DW could pursue her grad degree). I can't say that I'd recommend the 2nd job path for everyone - and mine was a "fun" 2nd job as a high school & NCAA sports official. Being away from home 4 evenings/week plus Saturdays & Sundays officiating turned what was once an enjoyable avocation into - you guessed it - a JOB.
__________________
candrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 06:10 PM   #25
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
One kid is pretty good too. For me being a parent enriched my life enormously. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Now he's about grown we are the best of friends too.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
Exactly. DW and I have three grown children with our third grandchild on the way. Can't put a dollar figure on that one. However, in spite of everything life has thrown our way we're FI. With good fortune (luck) and hard (smart) work you really can have it all.
__________________
Retired in 2016. Living off dividends / interest and a mini pension. Freedom.
foxfirev5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 07:02 PM   #26
Moderator
rodi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6miths View Post
Four kids, a healthy net worth and a solid safety net for old age. Family. Many different ways to get there. And children are well worth it, IMHO.
I have kids. Perhaps mine are less perfect than yours. (Actually, I'm sure they are.) Many many times I have regrets about having kids. Usually when one or the other of 'em is acting out.

I love 'em - but they do try me, often.
__________________
Retired June 2014. No longer an enginerd - now I'm just a nerd.
micro pensions 7%, rental income 18%
rodi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 07:30 PM   #27
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,417
Lol. I didn't say mine were anywhere near perfect, but I would go as far as to say that in many ways they are better than I was! And I guess we have been lucky in that I don't think that we have ever had occasion to feel (for more than a fleeting moment) that it was a mistake to have them.
__________________
6miths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2014, 09:06 AM   #28
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,288
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
Whether children are "well worth it" is irrelevant to this discussion. ... Unless your kids are generating more income than expenses, they made your safety net smaller and reduced your net worth compared to if you had been childfree. ...
Yes, kids are an expense when they are under our care, hard to disagree with that. Whether they are 'worth it' or not in other ways, I agree that is an entirely separate, and personal issue.

However, there is another possible financial matter - our old age. I'm seeing this now, as DW and I and our siblings are caring for our parents. Mostly, it's just simple stuff, but this stuff isn't so simple w/o help when you are legally blind and have trouble reading bills and other notices, and have limited mobility. Just having someone do the grocery shopping, sort out the old food in the fridge, and look after little things like buttons getting inadvertently pushed on the phone or TV and rendering them useless, or other little maintenance things. Even in a retirement community, many of these things are your responsibility. You can hire people to do some of this, but where do you turn to have a check written, or to read some docs that require a decision and action? Who will keep the wolves & sharks away? Who can you truest (yes, I know you can't always trust your offspring either, but at least you know them and may be able to figure that out).

Now we certainly didn't have kids with the thought that these were a long term investment in old-age services for us. But now I'm seeing the reality up close and personal, and having a next generation to help out is hard to put a price on. What is easy for us is difficult/impossible for them in many cases. It's why the older family structures had multi-generations under one roof. Things have changed, and elders can get on easier than in the past in some ways, but things have changed, and life is more complicated in many ways than in the past.

-ERD50
__________________
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 05:30 AM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,472
DH and I helped my parents through their final years in many ways--companionship, driver, nurse, cook, instant second opinion, pet sitter, and for 3 years managed dad's financial affairs including farm property management. I'm already grooming DS for that role, and even in high school had adult conversations about this stuff. I hope the childless folks have a plan for who will manage their affairs in the future.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
EastWest Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 10:45 AM   #30
Full time employment: Posting here.
Birdie Num Nums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
....I hope the childless folks have a plan for who will manage their affairs in the future.
Childless or got many, that's what a health care directive, power of attorney, and will are for. Ask any estate attorney about the many incidents of children fighting over this and that of their parents, or the kids that just don't give a .... Having kids isn't always the best recipe for managing your affairs.
__________________
Birdie Num Nums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 10:48 AM   #31
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nash031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Coronado
Posts: 1,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastWest Gal View Post
I hope the childless folks have a plan for who will manage their affairs in the future.
I always find this line of reasoning interesting. What guarantees do you have as a parent that your child will be around and/or willing to take care of your affairs? We HOPE that our kids are willing to do so, but there is nothing requiring them to do so. IMO, if your plan for aging is to have Johnny/Susie take care of your affairs, you don't have a plan; you have a hope.
__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
nash031 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:04 AM   #32
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
Unless your kids are generating more income than expenses, they made your safety net smaller and reduced your net worth compared to if you had been childfree. We say the same things about people who spend money recklessly on cars, houses, vacations, restaurants, financial advisors, etc., all of which worsen one's financial position and make retirement tougher. I am simply adding children to that mix.
I think there is big difference of mind between spending money on experience of hiking Kilimanjaro versus spending money on expensive car.

One is spending money on experience another on material thing. Kids are experience in this context....

You have much bigger potential for building high NW if you are experience kind of spender.
__________________
eta2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:32 AM   #33
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdie Num Nums View Post
Childless or got many, that's what a health care directive, power of attorney, and will are for. Ask any estate attorney about the many incidents of children fighting over this and that of their parents, or the kids that just don't give a .... Having kids isn't always the best recipe for managing your affairs.
My ladyfriend is among 4 siblings who are fighting over how to care for their elderly parents who have become more ill in the last few months. She has had repeated heated arguments with one sibling over the care of their parents including POA. It is playing out like a bad episode of Family Feud. I'm not sure whom I feel more sorry for - my ladyfriend (who is a health care provider, a Physician's Assistant) or her parents who are getting caught in the crossfire of their children's arguments.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:35 AM   #34
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by eta2020 View Post
I think there is big difference of mind between spending money on experience of hiking Kilimanjaro versus spending money on expensive car.

One is spending money on experience another on material thing. Kids are experience in this context....

You have much bigger potential for building high NW if you are experience kind of spender.
For may parents, kids are in the same category as an expensive car......

I think you have an even bigger potential for high NW if you lay off costly experiences and costly material things and having kids (whichever category you place them into).
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:37 AM   #35
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Live And Learn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 1,689
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuke_diver View Post
Not sure I agree with this one...if I had more money I'd be happier
More money would definitely not make me happier, but it would make me worry less (which I guess could techincally be called a form of happiness - so maybe it would make me happier !)
__________________
"For the time being no discipline brings joy, but seems grievous and painful; but afterwards it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it." ~
Hebrews 12:11

ER'd in June 2015 at age 52. Initial WR 3%. 50/40/10 (Equity/Bond/Short Term) AA.
Live And Learn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:42 AM   #36
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
For may parents, kids are in the same category as an expensive car......

I think you have an even bigger potential for high NW if you lay off costly experiences and costly material things and having kids (whichever category you place them into).
Probably, but happiness is good health, enough money and relationships with friend and family.

So having kids often (but not always ) makes for pleasant and satisfying life.

I would much rather experience having kids then drive brand new BMW every 3 years. They are NOT in same category of spending at all. But I agree with you kids are very expensive and you will build your money much faster without them.
__________________
eta2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 11:52 AM   #37
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERD50 View Post
Yes, kids are an expense when they are under our care, hard to disagree with that. Whether they are 'worth it' or not in other ways, I agree that is an entirely separate, and personal issue.

However, there is another possible financial matter - our old age. I'm seeing this now, as DW and I and our siblings are caring for our parents. Mostly, it's just simple stuff, but this stuff isn't so simple w/o help when you are legally blind and have trouble reading bills and other notices, and have limited mobility. Just having someone do the grocery shopping, sort out the old food in the fridge, and look after little things like buttons getting inadvertently pushed on the phone or TV and rendering them useless, or other little maintenance things. Even in a retirement community, many of these things are your responsibility. You can hire people to do some of this, but where do you turn to have a check written, or to read some docs that require a decision and action? Who will keep the wolves & sharks away? Who can you truest (yes, I know you can't always trust your offspring either, but at least you know them and may be able to figure that out).

Now we certainly didn't have kids with the thought that these were a long term investment in old-age services for us. But now I'm seeing the reality up close and personal, and having a next generation to help out is hard to put a price on. What is easy for us is difficult/impossible for them in many cases. It's why the older family structures had multi-generations under one roof. Things have changed, and elders can get on easier than in the past in some ways, but things have changed, and life is more complicated in many ways than in the past.

-ERD50
You surely can't count on your kids to be able to take care of you. As I wrote in a post just above this one, my ladyfriend is among 4 siblings fighting over how to take care of their elderly parents whose health has gone downhill in the last few months. One sibling, a brother, is an interstate trucker who is not around much and has become recently divorced which devastated him financially and emotionally. Another sibling, a sister, is in denial about how bad shape her (and my ladyfriend's) parents are in, and has been harassing my ladyfriend in various ways (nonstop texting and phoning, shouting matches on the phone, falsely accusing my ladyfriend of embezzlement). The 4th sibling seems to be rather sane only because my ladyfriend hasn't complained about her. Meanwhile, none of them are really seeing to their ailing parents who live in an assisted living place in Kentucky, 700 miles away from NY where my ladyfriend and I live. So much for "Who's going to take care of you when you get old?"

My ladyfriend's daughter, who is divorced with 3 small children and live an hour's drive from her grandparents, has had to take on a lot of the day-to-day care, something she really isn't equipped to do (and shouldn't have to, considering her grandparents had 4 adult children).

My best friend, who like me is single, male, childfree, and 51, has me and a good circle of friends to keep watch on him even though he is fine. Both his parents have died in the last 5 years. I help him out by managing his inherited portfolio, something I have mentioned in other threads.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:01 PM   #38
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,871
Quote:
Originally Posted by eta2020 View Post
Probably, but happiness is good health, enough money and relationships with friend and family.

So having kids often sometimes, if you are lucky, (but not always ) makes for pleasant and satisfying life. [Or, sometimes, they will worsen your life.]

I would much rather experience having kids then drive brand new BMW every 3 years. They are NOT in same category of spending at all. But I agree with you kids are very expensive and you will build your money much faster without them.
I would rather drive a new car every few years than have kids. To me, they are the same type of spending. For me, kids will bring nothing but bad experiences and discomfort while the car will bring me good experiences and good comfort.

I don't buy cars anywhere near that often so doing that and being childfree have helped me generate a NW of over $1M and RE by age 45.
__________________
Retired in late 2008 at age 45. Cashed in company stock, bought a lot of shares in a big bond fund and am living nicely off its dividends. IRA, SS, and a pension await me at age 60 and later. No kids, no debts.

"I want my money working for me instead of me working for my money!"
scrabbler1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:03 PM   #39
Moderator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rocky Inlets
Posts: 24,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
For may parents, kids are in the same category as an expensive car......
It's fair to say it costs money to raise children, and all other things being equal, a couple can accumulate more money without than with them. Of course, ceteris paribus is entirely theoretical and doesn't exist in our real world.

Having and raising children is no so easily summed up in dollars and cents. It's about biology, not balance sheets, and although money is involved, it is one (perhaps minor) aspect of something far more complex. We all make a choice, but that does not mean the same choice would or should apply to others. The original post describes things we can do to save more, they apply equally to couples with children, single adults, and everyone in-between.
__________________
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2014, 12:04 PM   #40
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrabbler1 View Post
My ladyfriend is among 4 siblings who are fighting over how to care for their elderly parents who have become more ill in the last few months. She has had repeated heated arguments with one sibling over the care of their parents including POA. It is playing out like a bad episode of Family Feud. I'm not sure whom I feel more sorry for - my ladyfriend (who is a health care provider, a Physician's Assistant) or her parents who are getting caught in the crossfire of their children's arguments.
DW and I took the lead for her parents but they had fortunately filled out a POA naming DW. MIL broke her hip and also had dementia. FIL was quickly diagnosed with Alzheimers' so the POA kicked in almost immediately. SIL didn't want her parents to go in "an old folks home" and want them to receive home care (ours, of course). Their assets would not have covered the care needed outside of a nursing facility and assisted living. It got ugly enough that SIL called our kids and tried to get them to "convince" us. Fortunately, it didn't sell with them either so I will just never get over her attempt to manipulate us and our children. At one point it got heated enough where I offerred to put FIL on a plane and she could pick him up at the airport. She couldn't do that, of course. She was too busy but didn't see any problem with DW and I becoming full time caregivers so she could feel good about herself.

Unless there is a big estate involved, having the POA is a thankless job with little upside. As their health continues to degerate, it gets even worse. All of the siblings will think they know what's best and whoever has it can expect lots of "advice."
__________________

__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
5 Easy Steps to Becoming a Millionaire MasterBlaster FIRE and Money 42 06-12-2011 02:05 PM
Things own you; you don't own things - know what is want and a need dex Young Dreamers 21 10-26-2005 01:40 PM
Covered calls made easy....too easy? laurence FIRE and Money 8 09-13-2005 10:13 AM
Book Report - Millionaire next door cute fuzzy bunny Life after FIRE 72 10-18-2004 07:52 PM
Good book - The Millionaire Next Door Telly Other topics 18 08-20-2003 04:37 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.