beowulf said:I've seen a few of these threads before and one thing I don't understand is that very few people seem to include federal and state income taxes and FICA. For us, they are the single largest expense - running approximately at 38% of total income. When you are paid a salary, there is virtually no way to control these (other than reducing your income, which is somewhat self-defeating). You can reduce the first two by contributing the max to 401Ks, but not much beyond that. Part of FICA stops at about $106K, but that's still significant.
beowulf said:I admire those who can get by spending so little, but I don't think that's in the cards for us.
Uncle Sam treats it as a free loan. I worked hard at withholding only what I was expecting to pay and tried to get the 'savings' into an investment account as soon as possible rather than months later when I got a refund.To top it off, my excess tax withholding that I file and receive, I treat as a " savings" when I collect it.
I've seen a few of these threads before and one thing I don't understand is that very few people seem to include federal and state income taxes and FICA. For us, they are the single largest expense - running approximately at 38% of total income. When you are paid a salary, there is virtually no way to control these (other than reducing your income, which is somewhat self-defeating). You can reduce the first two by contributing the max to 401Ks, but not much beyond that. Part of FICA stops at about $106K, but that's still significant.
Do most people earn very little/not work/or are retired? My last day at the funny farm is Dec 31, so FICA will become a thing of the past. But our taxes will still be in the combined 30% range and that's not counting a $5K a year hit for property tax. We live in Northern VA, which is a fairly high cost area. For the last 20 years we have been able to save a fair amount, but now we will have to start drawing on that, so we will have to take a lot more care with expenses.
I admire those who can get by spending so little, but I don't think that's in the cards for us.
REWahoo said:Uncle Sam treats it as a free loan. I worked hard at withholding only what I was expecting to pay and tried to get the 'savings' into an investment account as soon as possible rather than months later when I got a refund.
We all have to play games at times to protect ourselves from us!I agree with you a 100%. But with me, it was a "in theory and reality thing". I wont waste a big refund and will invest it, but I have the unique ability to spend away monthly smaller amounts and have nothing to show for it. A more practical way would be to increase my monthly investment contributions and reduce tax withholding, but Im mindlessly stuck on the " winning the lottery of my own money" yearly in March.
+1I'm still working a little, and I don't include any payroll deductions or qtrly tax payments in my expense calcs. That would just serve to depress me. And I'm charting only those expenses that should be present in the first few years of retirement where we should be living off post tax investments with hopefully no income tax burden.
I've seen a few of these threads before and one thing I don't understand is that very few people seem to include federal and state income taxes and FICA. For us, they are the single largest expense - running approximately at 38% of total income. When you are paid a salary, there is virtually no way to control these (other than reducing your income, which is somewhat self-defeating). You can reduce the first two by contributing the max to 401Ks, but not much beyond that. Part of FICA stops at about $106K, but that's still significant.
Do most people earn very little/not work/or are retired? My last day at the funny farm is Dec 31, so FICA will become a thing of the past. But our taxes will still be in the combined 30% range and that's not counting a $5K a year hit for property tax. We live in Northern VA, which is a fairly high cost area. For the last 20 years we have been able to save a fair amount, but now we will have to start drawing on that, so we will have to take a lot more care with expenses.
I admire those who can get by spending so little, but I don't think that's in the cards for us.
I view these threads as a way to compare expenses with others, to see where our opportunities to trim or conceivably increase spending may be, in some categories. Operating expenses if you will. If I am spending 50% more than others on utilities with similar overall monthly spending, it's probably an opportunity for me. Or if i am spending much more than some others overall, maybe i can figure out how by seeing their breakdown.
Taxes aren't going to be comparable, especially here where the audience is a mix of retired and others still working. I guess you could also suggest members show what they save each month too, but not sure what purpose that would serve.
Maybe it's just me, but where I don't see any harm in sharing expenses, I don't see any need to share the other three numbers you're suggesting. YMMV.Maybe add four categories how much they made, what they paid in taxes, how much they spent and what they saved. That would give us a good overall picture.
Don't worry you have the anonymity of the internet.Maybe it's just me, but where I don't see any harm in sharing expenses, I don't see any need to share the other three numbers you're suggesting. YMMV.
As long as DW keeps her job, we spend more on FICA and income taxes than we spend on ourselves. I don't include those taxes in our budget at the moment because it would be depressing.