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Old 08-23-2015, 08:00 AM   #341
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Although I see the logic in calling the paper loss idea pure fiction, there is another perspective that can be seen in a thought experiment: There are plenty of other fruit trees on an island, but your property is the only one with a mango tree. Within the small community on the island, only one other person likes mangoes, he's the richest one on the island, and has offered all he has for your plot with the mango tree. You say 'no'. Now he dies, his assets are split up, and the market price of your property goes from 'outrageously high' to 'normal'. What difference does it make? You said 'no' to a sale when the price was high. You're going to say 'no' to a sale when the price is lower. You still have exactly what you started with. Some external factor is gone that was setting the price. Do you have greater flexibility if something you own has people clamoring to get it? Of course. But if you said 'no' to selling it to the clamoring crowd at a high price, then, at least in the short term, you'd also say 'no' at the lower price too, and you'd be in an unchanged situation.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:07 AM   #342
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and then there is a paper loss on top of a paper gain (which is what happened last week with most of my equity positions).... I actually don't feel as bad about those because it is just giving up a little of my previous unrealized gain.

I guess that I have been doing this investing thing long enough (over 30 years) that these market movements (both up and down) don't bother me much.
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Old 08-23-2015, 08:52 AM   #343
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that is an important point .

we tend to forget that even at the levels we fall to we would not be at those levels if we were not invested and tolerating these down turns . our balances would be much lower if we only did " safe "investments
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Old 08-23-2015, 10:08 AM   #344
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I am negative as well.
.
Yup it is amazing how many people here beat the market.
There's probably a few things going on here.

First, I'd say it's more likely for a person to post if they've got some 'news'. Having a down portfolio lately is not 'news', unfortunately.

Also, I think there's probably some cherry picking going on. For instance I can see that if "most" of my money is investment X, and that's done well, it's easy to look that up and report that. Or maybe some other way to report on a subset, like his and hers, where one of those is more conservative than the other.
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2015 YTD investment performance thread
Old 08-23-2015, 10:30 AM   #345
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2015 YTD investment performance thread

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Originally Posted by sengsational View Post
There's probably a few things going on here.

First, I'd say it's more likely for a person to post if they've got some 'news'. Having a down portfolio lately is not 'news', unfortunately.

Also, I think there's probably some cherry picking going on. For instance I can see that if "most" of my money is investment X, and that's done well, it's easy to look that up and report that. Or maybe some other way to report on a subset, like his and hers, where one of those is more conservative than the other.

Well no one ever lies on internet.....Including my HSA account I am up about 4% (I am ashamed it has performed better than my regular account because it is too expensive to trade there, so I buy once a year and hold).But it goes back to what Mathjack said. I can have decent returns and be honest because it is what you are invested in. Not everyone here is 100% in index funds tracking market.
BUT, if the market raced up 25% the next 12 months, the best I could hope for realistically is 8%. I sacrifice long term capital gains, for increased yield and income. And there will be a day when its my turn in the barrel. But hopefully based on what I own, not a deep barrel.


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Old 09-02-2015, 07:16 AM   #346
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OK so my numbers are - .18% YTD. Glad I didn't check it a few days ago. I only look at numbers once a month.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:09 AM   #347
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As of yesterdays close (9/1), Im at -4.1%. Im at 60/40 so my benchmark is Wellington which is at -4.2%. Ive been outperforming Wellington by a good margin on the upside and staying even on the downside so Im happy as I can be in a downturn.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:46 AM   #348
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Negative, in the upper single digits.
My energy holdings, which make up close to one quarter of my portfolio, have been a boat anchor. Still sitting on a lot of cash.
Similar with my situation, except I've now invested the cash at the latest dip. So now I can go back to sleep for a few months and see if the recent investments pay off or not.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:50 AM   #349
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The good news is the market has hit bottom. My infallible proof is the simple fact that I increased my cash position on Monday again. I managed to make it bounce a few weeks ago, but this time I've locked in and sold at the solid bottom for the year. You can thank me later.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:55 AM   #350
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OK so my numbers are - .18% YTD. Glad I didn't check it a few days ago. I only look at numbers once a month.
I need to hire you to manage my portfolio. That's excellent in this market.
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Old 09-02-2015, 08:56 AM   #351
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So, for those of you who are invested in energy holdings, which are down hard (I hold PRNEX, which is down 16%), would you throw your cash into that sector now? I need to rebalance and normally would do that since I am now low on my allocation for the fund...seems like the right thing to buy low and rebalance, but still not sure...
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:07 AM   #352
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I need to hire you to manage my portfolio. That's excellent in this market.
Oh geez, thanks, but I think it is how I run my numbers. I use the bogleheads returns sheet someone posted a while back. We modified it to include our equity in our rental property. We consider it to act like a bond fund - I've seen some on here view it that way. So I suspect that is raising our return number up because it's value hasn't declined along with the rest of the market. Not sure if that is correct or not.

Also, hubby is still working full-time, and fortunately we are still able to save a good chunk of cash every month which further helps to build our portfolio.

So we base our total portfolio on stocks, bonds, rental property equity, and cash. I imagine that is why my numbers aren't down as hard. I definitely consider myself a novice compared to most on here, lol!
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:09 AM   #353
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So, for those of you who are invested in energy holdings, which are down hard (I hold PRNEX, which is down 16%), would you throw your cash into that sector now? I need to rebalance and normally would do that since I am now low on my allocation for the fund...seems like the right thing to buy low and rebalance, but still not sure...
All the research shows that rebalancing to the under performing sectors works. It forces you to buy low and sell high. The easy part is sitting back rationally and making that plan. The hard part is sticking to the plan when you are right in the middle of it. If it was easy to buy low, everyone would do it. Who wants to buy something that sucks right now? Stick to your plan.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:11 AM   #354
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I'm 8% up YTD but 1.3% down the last month.

I do not track in great detail but my global index fund is up and my Euro funds are one up and one down so a wash. I probably have more Euro funds than many - around 60%. And my allocation is 40/60-ish but gradually becoming 60/40.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:17 AM   #355
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Oh geez, thanks, but I think it is how I run my numbers. I use the bogleheads returns sheet someone posted a while back. ... Also, hubby is still working full-time, and fortunately we are still able to save a good chunk of cash every month which further helps to build our portfolio.
If you're adding cash to your portfolio, one needs to calculate IRR or otherwise adjust for that fact. I'm not sure if that spreadsheet does that, or just takes the simple ($start-$now)/$start. Although not as good as IRR, you might try ($start-$now-$addedSinceStart)/$start.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:27 AM   #356
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I need to hire you to manage my portfolio. That's excellent in this market.
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If you're adding cash to your portfolio, one needs to calculate IRR or otherwise adjust for that fact. I'm not sure if that spreadsheet does that, or just takes the simple ($start-$now)/$start. Although not as good as IRR, you might try ($start-$now-$addedSinceStart)/$start.
It has a spot for contributions and withdrawals. So far I've been just putting in our 401K contributions (and HSA/Roth's, etc. when done). So you are saying whatever cash we end up left over from our income, after expenses, should also be added to contributions? (aka our cash savings every month is considered a contribution?)
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:28 AM   #357
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All the research shows that rebalancing to the under performing sectors works. It forces you to buy low and sell high. The easy part is sitting back rationally and making that plan. The hard part is sticking to the plan when you are right in the middle of it. If it was easy to buy low, everyone would do it. Who wants to buy something that sucks right now? Stick to your plan.
That's what I was thinking, just good to hear it from others. Thanks! Now to discuss with DH.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:46 AM   #358
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Oh geez, thanks, but I think it is how I run my numbers. I use the bogleheads returns sheet someone posted a while back. We modified it to include our equity in our rental property...
For rental properties which are income generators, that makes sense. My homes on the other hand are money pits. I do not include their values on Quicken, and their effect is simply to cause me to have a higher WR to get cash for maintenance.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:48 AM   #359
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QUOTE=utrecht;1630329] ...Who wants to buy something that sucks right now? [/QUOTE]

Let's have a show of hands.
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Old 09-02-2015, 10:04 AM   #360
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For rental properties which are income generators, that makes sense. My homes on the other hand are money pits. I do not include their values on Quicken, and their effect is simply to cause me to have a higher WR to get cash for maintenance.
Drag! Ours doesn't make us a ton of money, but it isn't in the red, either...finally!
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