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Old 03-24-2016, 03:57 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by DFW_M5 View Post
I am even for the year, wish it was more positive, but I'll take it.
+1
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:05 AM   #242
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VWINX Benchmark
YTD 0.24% 0.47%
1 year 0.15% -0.56%
I don't know where you are getting 3% for Wellesley. Are dividends not included in this number. It was negative when I checked before.
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:20 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by fosterscik View Post
Wellesley is actually doing pretty well - up over 3% for the year (3.07% as of 3/23/16 for VWIAX according to Vanguard)...
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Originally Posted by lemming View Post
VWINX Benchmark
YTD 0.24% 0.47%
1 year 0.15% -0.56%
I don't know where you are getting 3% for Wellesley. Are dividends not included in this number. It was negative when I checked before.
fosterscik apparently got his information from Vanguard. Where did you get your information? And, how long ago?

note: emphasis by redduck
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:43 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by lemming View Post
VWINX Benchmark
YTD 0.24% 0.47%
1 year 0.15% -0.56%
I don't know where you are getting 3% for Wellesley. Are dividends not included in this number. It was negative when I checked before.
According to Stockcharts.com VWIAX is up 3% with div and 2.32% without. VWELX is up 1.06% with div and 0.43% without.

My mix of these two is up a little more with some small portion of index funds and one HY bond.
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Old 03-25-2016, 10:52 AM   #245
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A "Moderate" portfolio is down -0.34% YTD as of the close 3/24/16 (with divs reinvested).


Moderate =


35% US Agg Bond
35% S&P 500
15% MSCI EAFE Developed Markets
10% Russell 2000
5% 3 month T Bill


To all you folks beating this, apparently with significantly different allocations or doing some successful active management, congratulations!
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Old 03-25-2016, 11:58 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by redduck View Post
fosterscik apparently got his information from Vanguard. Where did you get your information? And, how long ago?

note: emphasis by redduck
I got my information from Vanguard today.
Looking again it shows a Yield of 3.003 but ytd performance is per my post.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:45 PM   #247
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A "Moderate" portfolio is down -0.34% YTD as of the close 3/24/16 (with divs reinvested).
Morningstar shows that several 60/40 funds (moderate allocation) are YTD (through 3/24) between +0.52% to +0.84%. I noted the fund ticker symbols in a recent post in this thread.

So that leaves me wondering how -0.34% was determined. Was that just starting with values on 12/31/2015 and no rebalancing? 2016 has been a great year so for rebalancing.
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Old 03-25-2016, 01:30 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by youbet View Post
A "Moderate" portfolio is down -0.34% YTD as of the close 3/24/16 (with divs reinvested).


Moderate =


35% US Agg Bond
35% S&P 500
15% MSCI EAFE Developed Markets
10% Russell 2000
5% 3 month T Bill


To all you folks beating this, apparently with significantly different allocations or doing some successful active management, congratulations!
That makes me feel better since I'm at -0.39

I rebalanced once in late January because my bands were out by more than 5%... but that's the only rebalancing I've done.

I've got a 60/40 - but a chunk of the 40 (15%) is CDs because DH is afraid of the market. I've been slowly moving him (with his permission) into Wellington.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:19 AM   #249
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So that leaves me wondering how -0.34% was determined. Was that just starting with values on 12/31/2015 and no rebalancing? 2016 has been a great year so for rebalancing.
The return was calculated with monthly rebalancing and with divs/int re-invested. You can easily account for the difference in YTD performance by (1) noting the difference in composition between the funds you mentioned and the bucket of five indexes and (2) noting whether the actively managed funds did any trading (beyond rebalancing) during the period.
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Old 03-27-2016, 02:28 AM   #250
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I've got a 60/40 - but...........
Yeah, there's 60/40 portfolios and then there are 60/40 portfolios! Even relatively small differences (your 15% in CD's for example) in portfolio composition can have surprisingly large impacts on performance in any short time period.

The figure I gave came from Schwab and uses their definition of a "moderate" benchmark which they build using five common indexes. 0% expense ratio. Divs/Int reinvested. Rebalanced monthly. Actively managed "moderate" (about 60/40) MF's and ETF's can vary (higher or lower) in performance significantly from a moderate grouping of common indexes.
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Old 03-27-2016, 11:20 AM   #251
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The return was calculated with monthly rebalancing and with divs/int re-invested. You can easily account for the difference in YTD performance by (1) noting the difference in composition between the funds you mentioned and the bucket of five indexes and (2) noting whether the actively managed funds did any trading (beyond rebalancing) during the period.
I wonder then if Schwab is sandbagging by choice of that particular portfolio with the high cash allocation and reporting a -0.34% to make other Schwab portfolios look better than that index-fund moderate portfolio.

The portfolio you listed was composed of non-actively-managed funds (that is, index funds) and yet the -0.34% is about 0.8% to 1% under the Vanguard index funds of funds with not-dissimilar compositions. The Vanguard fund performances include re-invested dividends and expense ratios. They are the YTD numbers that an investor in those funds would have received.

Now rebalancing at month-ends would not have helped as much as rebalancing on better days such as February 11.
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Old 03-27-2016, 12:42 PM   #252
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I wonder then if Schwab is sandbagging by choice of that particular portfolio with the high cash allocation and reporting a -0.34% to make other Schwab portfolios look better than that index-fund moderate portfolio.
No, absolutely not. They have several benchmarks based on indexes and they calculate their hypothetical performance daily. On their site, you're free to compare your portfolio or any of your holdings to these benchmarks or other funds (any brand) as you wish. They make zero reference to any Schwab funds.
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The portfolio you listed was composed of non-actively-managed funds (that is, index funds)
Absolutely not. It is a benchmark comprised of indexes, NOT index funds. Having index based benchmarks is fairly common.
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and yet the -0.34% is about 0.8% to 1% under the Vanguard index funds of funds with not-dissimilar compositions.
No. Actually the funds you mentioned are significantly different in composition from the benchmark we're discussing.

A benchmark is a benchmark. This one is fairly common. Before using any benchmark, understand what's in it, how it's calculated and how it's different from the actively managed fund or portfolio you're comparing with it.
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Old 03-29-2016, 08:46 PM   #253
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+1.3% YTD vs +0.7% for Vanguard 2020 Target Retirement fund (which is also 60/40)
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Old 03-29-2016, 10:31 PM   #254
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As of today 3/29, I am up +1.6%. It's OK, but I trail Wellington which is at 1.74% YTD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
A "Moderate" portfolio is down -0.34% YTD as of the close 3/24/16 (with divs reinvested).

Moderate =

35% US Agg Bond
35% S&P 500
15% MSCI EAFE Developed Markets
10% Russell 2000
5% 3 month T Bill

To all you folks beating this, apparently with significantly different allocations or doing some successful active management, congratulations!
Here's what Quicken says about my AA.

My stock portions add up to 62%, but this can be misleading because I hold many stocks and ETFs with high beta. So, my portfolio moves more like one with an AA of 80% stock or higher.

I also have a lot of cash which does not help like bonds do for Wellington. For the equities, I have about 1/2 in MFs, and 1/2 in individual stocks. My stocks are doing better than the MFs YTD. Last year, the MFs did better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet View Post
The figure I gave came from Schwab and uses their definition of a "moderate" benchmark which they build using five common indexes. 0% expense ratio. Divs/Int reinvested. Rebalanced monthly. Actively managed "moderate" (about 60/40) MF's and ETF's can vary (higher or lower) in performance significantly from a moderate grouping of common indexes.
I have some accounts at Schwab, but do not spend much time on their Web site. Just now, spent some time perusing their Web pages and using their search, but failed to find the info you posted above. A couple of links will be useful, thanks.
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Old 03-30-2016, 05:35 AM   #255
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+1.3% YTD vs +0.7% for Vanguard 2020 Target Retirement fund (which is also 60/40)
One has to be careful with the dates when looking at YTD returns since various web sites do not update those numbers in a timely fashion. For instance, the YTD return last night of Vanguard 2020 Target Retirement is actually 1.55% while the 0.7% (actually 0.71%) was for the day before.

Here is a screen capture of YTD returns through yesterday March 29:



Furthermore, if one uses Morningstar to compare funds like I did in the figure, sometimes only some of the funds will have updated numbers, so one may get a mix of returns off by one day even though the "Total Return % (MM/DD/20YY)" will show a single date.
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Old 03-30-2016, 06:54 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by LOL! View Post
One has to be careful with the dates when looking at YTD returns since various web sites do not update those numbers in a timely fashion. For instance, the YTD return last night of Vanguard 2020 Target Retirement is actually 1.55% while the 0.7% (actually 0.71%) was for the day before......

Furthermore, if one uses Morningstar to compare funds like I did in the figure, sometimes only some of the funds will have updated numbers, so one may get a mix of returns off by one day even though the "Total Return % (MM/DD/20YY)" will show a single date.
You are right! It shows 1.55% this morning. Something to keep in mind.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:01 PM   #257
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A couple of links will be useful, thanks.
PM'd you.
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:15 PM   #258
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How about this and everyone use 12 months as months elasped? While it sacrifices some precision to simplicity, at least it would offer consistency.

Investment Return Calculator: Measure your Portfolio's Performance
OK, now that we've all agreed to use the calculator that pb4uski suggested, here is how I am doing so far this year (through March 31) as per my Dividend Portfolio: up 7.06%.
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Old 03-31-2016, 05:48 PM   #259
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:47 PM   #260
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How about this and everyone use 12 months as months elasped? While it sacrifices some precision to simplicity, at least it would offer consistency.

Investment Return Calculator: Measure your Portfolio's Performance
OK, so using the linked calculator and 12 months elapsed, as of:
Jan 31: -3.24%
Feb 29: -1.56%
Mar 31: +3.98%

Glad to be back on the plus side.
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