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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-26-2006, 09:47 AM   #21
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

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Originally Posted by mathjak107
Prenups can be pretty worthless in court. Although they look good on paper the reality is that once they go to court all bets are off. They remind me of reading resumes. I never met a resume i didnt like.* * *

From what ive learned about them they are based on the fact that they only are upheld if situations havent changed.* In other words you get married ,you have a career ,she has a career, you sign prenups. She becomes ill and unable to work ,or you have a child with problems that requred full time attention ,or an accident left her unable to work.
The courts look at each situation to determine whether the prenup should still stand or whether the spouse has a new implied situation different from the situation when the prenup was agreed to. . We learned all this after my new bride and i looked into a prenup of a sort just in case of divorce and after meeting with a few professionals they all said the same thing.

They all said they can write one for us but they may not be worth the paper they are written on.* One even refused saying here in new york he wont do pre-nups as he is tired of getting dragged into court himself for documents he wrote that were being challenged.
Here is how it works in Illinois. Absent strong evidence to the contrary,
by law prenups are assumed to be valid. Also, if there is no
combining of assets (joint purchases for example) then "marital
property" is not created, meaning "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours". Pretty clear out here in corn country.

JG
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-26-2006, 10:37 AM   #22
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
From what ive learned about them they are based on the fact that they only are upheld if situations havent changed.* In other words you get married ,you have a career ,she has a career, you sign prenups. She becomes ill and unable to work ,or you have a child with problems that requred full time attention ,or an accident left her unable to work.
Sounds fair to me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr._johngalt
Here is how it works in Illinois.* Absent strong evidence to the contrary,
by law prenups are assumed to be valid.* Also, if there is no
combining of assets (joint purchases for example) then "marital
property" is not created, meaning "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours".* Pretty clear out here in corn country.

JG
If this is the case,* a dumped spouse could get royally screwed when there are signficant changes in circumstances.* Doesn't sound fair to me.




Quote:
Originally Posted by youbet
This isn't really so complicated........

Hey, if you aren't ready to attach your primary loyalty to your new spouse, especially in the situations described above, don't get married.
Yup.* I agree.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-26-2006, 06:28 PM   #23
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

Problem isnt marriage its divorce. Divorces can turn real ugly real fast no matter how much love ,loyality and great expectations you start out with.

Nothing wrong with a couple having a safety net in case the marriage dosnt work out in the form of a little prenup. I do hate when married people structure everything like your wife means no more to you than your great aunt.

Those relationships where each party leaves everything to their kids or leave a mere pitance to a spouse who dosnt have much i think are very wrong but hey each to his own...
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-26-2006, 10:30 PM   #24
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

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Problem isnt marriage its divorce.
Nah. Commit 100% or just stay "close friends." Getting married and contengencies seems like an oxymoron. Stay single friends. Live together, screw, have kids, whatever. Just don't tie the legal knot.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-27-2006, 03:42 AM   #25
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

There is a certain amount of truth to that, just living together in most states reflects true love. Everyone is there because they really want to be,not because they are contractually obligated.
unfourtunelty we are still a country that revolves around marriage and to many benefits are tied in to the fact that in order to get them you must be married.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-27-2006, 10:21 PM   #26
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

We got a great pre-nup when we married. Our assets were about equal but I had a house and hub was renting. If anything happened to my hub I did not want his exwife coming after my house on behalf of his kids.

The prenup essentially sets out what property belongs to each, and that in the absense of adding the spouses name to an asset, it remains the sole propety of the original owner. Money exchnaged is deemed to be gifts unless there is a promissary note. The downside is that I pay for the house myself, I take NO money from him for it. We keep all expenses separate. He also has a 3mil insurance policy that goes to support the kids (12 & 18) so I don't think the ex would come after my assets.

We are getting ready to do a trust. The attorney advised us to keep it fluid, meaning the trustee can diseminate funds as they see fit but after reading about the psychological hurt this can cause children we are going to divide it up in a way we feel is fair to his children and mine. She also recommended two trustees, so I wouldn't waste all the money, but we think if we are that worried about it, we will use a bank.

Instead, we will put an age on disbursement for his girls, and just let them have it.

The attorney had one really good suggestion (echoed in the books I read) that is to take out a small life insurance policy so the kids get something when you pass and are not sitting around waiting for the new wife to die.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 03:06 AM   #27
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

The life insurance thing is what i did.I dont want my kids going "isnt this bitch ever going to die" so they can get something from their father. My wife has an interest in an inheirited real estate business so any unsold property will go directly to her son.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 03:09 AM   #28
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

As far as keeping everything seperate we dont do that. For a marriage i find thats to disruptive and to cold although it is the proper way.
*
basically we drew up a prenup that we agree that whatever we came in with we leave with if divorced, just a safety net. . More a gentlemans agreement if you dont follow thru like you did keeping everything seperate.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 08:03 AM   #29
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

It is tough to keep things separate and every month I make the huge mortgage payment I feel the pain, but I think it's best for now. He is paying for college (50K per year) for the 18 year old, and because he is not paying for the house he is able to pay as she goes rather than going into savings or accumulating debt.

It becomes sort of comical sometimes. We'll need some upgrade thing to the house, but I won't want to spend the money so he will say "I'll treat you to a new fence" LOL Like birthday gifts.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 02:37 PM   #30
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

We decided if we get married we will fully support each other thru life,meaning we will not give our shares away to our kids while one of us is alive leaving the remaining spouse to struggle thru an established lifestyle .
----

My aunt also has a trust that does this. If she dies before her SO (they never married, but have lived together for 20 years), the trust will give him income and, I believe he can take out some amount of principal each year. I don't know the full details, even though I am both the executor of her estate and one of two beneficiaries of the trust. I don't need to know, although I probably have a copy of it filed away somewhere in my safe deposit box...

I'm not sure if my uncle has one of these for her, but they keep their finances kind of separate and I'm sure his money will go to his kids from his previous marriage. My aunt has enough that she doesn't need his, so it's not as much of an issue.

Karen
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 04:39 PM   #31
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

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Originally Posted by mathjak107
Everyone is there because they really want to be,not because they are contractually obligated.
In my particular state, a person can exit a marriage unilaterally with 20 days notice and a ~$100 filing fee in the local district court. Hardly "contractually obligated".

2Cor521
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-28-2006, 05:52 PM   #32
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

hate to tell you what it took to get my divorce.
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-29-2006, 11:23 AM   #33
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

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hate to tell you what it took to get my divorce.
Been there, done that, and have the scars to prove it. :P

But is was also a positive thing for all of us in the long run. We are all happier now and have adjusted to new marriages and new lives. The kids are grown and are living their own lives now. My financial situation was a train wreck in my first marriage and for three years afterwards as I paid off all the accumulated debts and starting saving and investing for my future. I am much better off today as a result of the divorce despite the huge financial cost associated with it. With out it, I might have had to work until I dropped dead in the saddle.

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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning
Old 09-29-2006, 06:17 PM   #34
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Re: 2nd marriages and estate planning

my sentiments exactley
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