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Old 08-25-2011, 07:55 PM   #21
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That all of these may or will happen is readily forseeable - it's the timing and amount(s) that are harder to predict.

1. taking up an expensive hobby: planned and budgeted for
2. upgrading the home: we plan to rennovate last year next year and expect to do a full refurbishment every 10 years or so
3. bailing out an adult child: limited post-education support will be made available if needed for the right things and we can do so without putting ourselves in a hole
4. caring for a parent: we already provide some support to DWs parents and surviving grandparents. My own parents are well able to support themselves financially
5. neither of our children have any special needs. The possibilty of an accident or other adverse event affecting one of our children or any other family member) can't be ruled out

I have included provisions for #1, #2 and #3 in the budget and then added 20% to the total budget to allow for contingencies, bad years and to provide a level of "sleep at night" financial security. #1 and #2 are either wholly or partly discretionary - we can do without them if we need to
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:12 PM   #22
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They missed one unforeseen event.
I haven't been on this forum in a long time and stopped by to see what's new on the FIRE front. I'm now the father of 19 month old triplets! After being married over 10yrs, retired from military since 2007 (after 24yrs svc) and pretty well set for a FIRE plan, we not only got pregged, but received successive ultrasounds showing more babies over several weeks - so initial shock went to even higher defcon levels. Wife has multiples on her side of family, but really never thought anything of it since we had long since stopped worrying about having kids.
Anyway - a great paying job, modification of plan, and accepting some realities might allow for a redux FIRE - later than planned.
Original plan derailed but we will incorporate some ER lifestyle where possible...They already have passports and a trip to Guatemala under their belt!
A blessing for sure. However, if we had not prepared for our future FIRE and adhered to the financial principles most of us espouse, this would've crushed us on several fronts.
regards,
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:15 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by One-Zero View Post
They missed one unforeseen event.
I haven't been on this forum in a long time and stopped by to see what's new on the FIRE front. I'm now the father of 19 month old triplets! After being married over 10yrs, retired from military since 2007 (after 24yrs svc) and pretty well set for a FIRE plan, we not only got pregged, but received successive ultrasounds showing more babies over several weeks - so initial shock went to even higher defcon levels. Wife has multiples on her side of family, but really never thought anything of it since we had long since stopped worrying about having kids.
Anyway - a great paying job, modification of plan, and accepting some realities might allow for a redux FIRE - later than planned.
Original plan derailed but we will incorporate some ER lifestyle where possible...They already have passports and a trip to Guatemala under their belt!
A blessing for sure. However, if we had not prepared for our future FIRE and adhered to the financial principles most of us espouse, this would've crushed us on several fronts.
regards,
1-0
Great looking happy kids!

Congratulations!

Ha
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:19 PM   #24
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There's only 1 out of the 5 expenses which is troubling me now - caring for a parent. My parents are always in denial of being to sick to care for themselves. They have money saved and their own home. They tell us not to worry but being a planner, I have put aside money for them when they need the care. Dad became really sick and has been in and out of hospital for 3 months after having chemotheraphy end of last year. I don't think what he as saved is financially sustainable for the treatment he is receiving and mum does not have the energy to care for him. I am glad I have allocated monies for medical and caring for a parent but with the rising costs and long stretched illness, am wondering whether what I have allocated is sufficient.
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:57 PM   #25
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[Spoken with a Homer Simpson impersonation:] "Hobbies .... Ohhhhh-hhhh-hhh-hh-h. As expected I'm spending more time with photography then at my peak interest during the film era. I want a big monitor with a color profile that my editing software knows about, a digital SLR with a long fast lens in addition to the usual kit and a workstation that makes the hours that evaporate while I'm editing photos easier on my body.

The sensible route is to learn more about my current equipment before buying more choices I don't understand. Darn my self control.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:54 AM   #26
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I'll add one. Taking care of a special needs sibling. This can be unforeseen. Especially if your parents didn't adequately plan.
That's a fact of which we are well aware. We found that a lot of parents who have the situation naturally think that siblings or other family members will "take care" of the individual, after they have passed on.

In reality, it's been our view/opinion that this is not the case. Siblings have their own family and future to worry about, and of course (IMHO) that is their primary responsibility.

Heck, even though my son has no siblings, I would (if there was) not expect them to act as "parent" to our son after I/DW passed on.

Even in our case, nobody in either family (DW/mine) wants anything to do with our son (which leads me to my feelings that families suc*, which is another discussion).

Anyway, for any parent who has a disabled child the best that they can hope for is the "child" (regardless of age) passes before they do. That might sound cruel but it is a fact of life. Just do a search for situations that an elderly couple committed murder/suicide due to end of life concerns mostly of one of them being the caretaker (but facing medical problems), and you will also find cases of the same elderly parents take their disabled children "home" with them.

It does occur, as cruel as it sounds. That’s life…

Fortunately, our son's future (after we're gone) is fully funded and he can be assured that he'll continue to live in his same lifestyle (if somewhat meger, but he dosen't want/need much). However, that level of "security" took many years of planning, along with the understanding that DW/me had to consider the impact to our own retirement plans...
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:10 AM   #27
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[Spoken with a Homer Simpson impersonation:]
The sensible route is to learn more about my current equipment before buying more choices I don't understand. Darn my self control.
Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I'm wrestling with the same issues.

Sometimes being a mature responsible adult is such a PITA.
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Old 08-26-2011, 08:36 AM   #28
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Anyway, for any parent who has a disabled child the best that they can hope for is the "child" (regardless of age) passes before they do. That might sound cruel but it is a fact of life. Just do a search for situations that an elderly couple committed murder/suicide due to end of life concerns mostly of one of them being the caretaker (but facing medical problems), and you will also find cases of the same elderly parents take their disabled children "home" with them.

It does occur, as cruel as it sounds. That’s life…
That is cruel and may be your view, but is one I do not share. There are organizations to help families deal with individuals that require special care. Some are publically funded and others private. They provide different levels of support including lodging and assistance with basic life tasks. They are struggling with funding, and the need is greater than the available support. But there is infrastructure to deal with adults requiring support and it is much better than any other country I have visited.

Having resources gives families additional option, but not having means does not move the line from ‘cared for’ to “better off dead”. My experience with this is my BIL, severely disabled with cerebral palsy, and my brother, disabled with mental illness. For both the caregiver is a family member that is there voluntarily and family provides the bulk of financial support. In my brother’s case it is already clear his caregiver will soon go from providing help to needing some herself and her family will be there for her as well. This is life, it doesn’t suck, but it is challenging, and there are many that stand up to do their part when the need arises.

Your son is fortunate to have parents that could and did plan to provide for the day they are no longer present.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:36 AM   #29
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Still a few years from FIRE so in the planning stage.

1. Hobbies - We generally like simple stuff, but I can envision this category being a big cost area. We plan for this though - travel/entertainment/fun budget will probably be 1/4 to 1/3 the annual budget (more in good times, less in bad times). I may get a bike and some sort of boat (kayak or canoe, maybe small sail boat). Nothing extravagant though. Although the money will be there in the budget should the desire arise. Otherwise we will blow it on travel or other fun.

2. Upgrading home - I do have a DW who seems to have a perpetual interest in making the nest nicer. This may be a negotiated budget line item - ie "Honey, do we want to work an extra six months to allow us to do a $10,000 remodel every 5 years?". Otherwise we have a line item for amortized capital expenses for the house that covers all the systems that break or degrade (HVAC, roof, appliances, exterior and interior paint, carpet/flooring, etc). Roughly 1% of the value of the house on a per annum basis.

3. Bailing out adult children - Not sure about this one, but we will have at least 2 kids around age 10 at the time of FIRE. So we will have a low degree of certainty about their futures, although things look bright right now. We are of the tough love school, and have let them make money decisions from an early age. In terms of budget, we have kid expenses in there for perpetuity, even though they would decline somewhere around age 22 for the kids (10-12 years into FIRE). College accounts will be adequately funded pre-FIRE. We are shooting for a successful launch so there won't be any crashing back to earth.

4. Caring for a parent - My parents are financially very stable, still working but retiring in a few years with adequate resources (pensions, SS, 7 figure portfolio). DW's parents are another story - very little in the way of savings, but we are relying on medicare/medicaid for them, plus SS. They have 4 other children, all living locally, besides DW (we are local too). Financially we are best off, but if it comes time to chip in, at least a few of the siblings will help some if necessary.

5. Caring for special needs child - not an issue for us presently, but I guess there is always a low probability chance that this could be an issue going forward. I don't think we will explicitly plan for this event, but rather plan on having enough fluff in the budget to accommodate something like this happening.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:39 PM   #30
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They missed one unforeseen event.
I haven't been on this forum in a long time and stopped by to see what's new on the FIRE front. I'm now the father of 19 month old triplets! -0

They are adorable !
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:17 PM   #31
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One-zero, if I had to pick an unforeseen expense that delayed/derailed my retirement, I'd choose yours.

OK, maybe 25 years ago...

Thanks for posting those great photos!
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:23 PM   #32
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I think getting Alzheimers is something that uses up retirement savings like a house on fire, judging by my parents' experience. It costs so much for care and lasts so long (6years in my mom's case.) It was about $6000 monthly for all those years. They didn't have long term care ins, which would have helped.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:45 AM   #33
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Thought that only applied to kayaks, yakers has 4 now and always lusting after another one.
And longboards to that list. After buying a 9'0" and a 10'0", I find myself eyeballing a 9'6"... it's a good thing they're sold in increments of inches, not millimeters.

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As far as the housing, I knew a guy that bought a new and bigger house every few years at his wife's insistence. He'd sink a bunch of money into the new place for elaborate landscaping, interior decorating, etc. then she'd demand they sell and buy a bigger house. He did this month before his scheduled "retirement". He took another full time job to pay the bigger mortgage and to my knowledge is still working in his 60's with a fantastic pension to pay for the houses.
In 2005 at a college reunion we met a retired flag officer in that situation. He's USNA '50 which means he was 76-80 years old. His spouse actually pulled mine aside to quietly inquire how she and I could afford to retire at "such a young age". Spouse explained savings, investments, and rental property. Mrs. FO said "Oh, we don't have any of that." But they have a very nice house and a very big mortgage in a very opulent neighborhood.

Then there's another retired officer and his spouse who've been working for over 40 years and show no sign of stopping. They also own a nice house and a very big mortgage in a very expensive neighborhood, as well as putting both daughters through very a nice private school (yes, W2R, your alma mater) and even nicer private colleges. However he's always had a Trump-class work-related ego that wouldn't survive more than two pension checks outside the office environment, so I guess he's "happy".
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:48 PM   #34
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One possible unexpected risk for me (and other physicians) would be a major lawsuit. I've got good insurance, but even as an incorporated physician, the liability is personal.
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Old 08-27-2011, 12:59 PM   #35
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And longboards to that list. After buying a 9'0" and a 10'0", I find myself eyeballing a 9'6"... it's a good thing they're sold in increments of inches, not millimeters.
I had five sailboards at one time. The two I have left are mostly gathering dust these days. I need a rigger to set them up, carry them 100 yards to the water and place me aboard. But bikes - N+1.
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:25 PM   #36
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Other than the overpriced Tampa Bay Buccaneer season ticket hobby, I'm in good shape. Parents, thankfully are in better shape and won't need a thing, financially.

My biggest concern for myself is possible long-term health care needs - can derail a retirement plan in the later stages.
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:27 PM   #37
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Your children are beautiful, One-Zero.
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They missed one unforeseen event.
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:38 PM   #38
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One-zero, if I had to pick an unforeseen expense that delayed/derailed my retirement, I'd choose yours.

OK, maybe 25 years ago...

Thanks for posting those great photos!
I agree with this completely. One-Zero, your children are gorgeous! Congratulations!
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:00 PM   #39
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Quick One-Zero!! Move to a country, with your children, where it is expected that the children will support the parents in retirement. Act fast, before they develop American expectations.
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Old 08-28-2011, 05:06 PM   #40
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We've been hit by the "bailing out adult children". So far, our "conservative planning with a big cushion for unforeseen circumstances" has been enough to cover it.

I can't share the circumstances, but the "tough love" believers need to think about what they would do if it's pretty clear that the young adult in question didn't create the problem.
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