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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-19-2004, 03:52 AM   #101
 
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

This is how lazy I've become. I read the post about working part time in ER "five hours a week",
and my first thought was "Man, I wouldn't want to work
five hours a week." Of course, if you love your work
then you might as well continue on some basis.
Unfortunately, I never found any employment that I
enjoyed as much as "playing". I had my own business
and might have scaled it back to part time. Or, maybe not. When I worked, I worked all the time. If I wasn't
physically at the office I was thinking about it. My DNA
probably wouldn't allow me to work part time in my own business. Pretty soon I would be back in my old
workaholic ways. Now, I just spend my time looking for ways to play and have fun, and planning future adventures .

John Galt
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-21-2004, 04:07 PM   #102
 
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

I appreciate those who say they don't want to work anymore. I don't consider what I do as work if I'm not overwhelmed with it. Except for a few times a year, I already feel like I'm retired. I only work about 25 hours a week on average right now in a low-stress environment, and I make my own hours for the most part. Actually, I spend a lot of my time at "work" planning on my vacations and other fun activities or on the phone with clients who have become friends.

I've also noticed that some people who don't "work" tend to become a bit eccentric, lethargic, and/or stale. I find this mostly with people who don't have a variety of interests, especially when they have made work their life. I don't know if others have done this, but I've made a list of things I want to do at retirement and keep adding to it all the time (I'm probably around 400 things to do and places to see right now). I'm doing some of them now, but I hope to do more at ER.
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-21-2004, 04:59 PM   #103
 
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Quote:
I've also noticed that some people who don't "work" tend to become a bit eccentric, lethargic, and/or stale. I find this mostly with people who don't have a variety of interests, especially when they have made work their life.

You got that right! - People that have made work their life, don't hang out here for long!

My list of things to do keeps getting longer every day. Every time I take a trip to a new place in the world, I come home with 3 new destinations I've thought of!
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-21-2004, 05:15 PM   #104
 
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

I guess I am somewhat typical in that I too am always adding to my list of future adventures and experiences in ER.
I know I will never live long enough to get it all in,
which I view as a good thing. However, when I was
working, it was kind of my life, or at least I put far more
effort into work than anything else. A textbook
workaholic. Where I become an anomaly is in the ease
of the transition from work to play. No angst whatsoever. I will always be a Type A, but now I put
that effort into fun and games, or I just do nothing
whcih I also view as a good thing. My life is kind of a
real life 'Seinfeld' episode, i.e. "a show about nothing"

John Galt
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-21-2004, 05:19 PM   #105
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Quote:
I've also noticed that some people who don't "work" tend to become a bit eccentric, lethargic, and/or stale.
Interesting observation, but I view it this way:

-- I am already eccentric and I'm trying desperately to hang on to the tiny shred of eccentricity that hasn't been beaten out of me in the workplace. Besides, my favorite people are eccentric.
-- Work makes me lethargic. When I'm off, I hate to waste time sleeping. When I'm at work I yearn for sleep, or any other escape that is legal.
-- There's nothing more stale than the mindless meetings one must endure at work. I think I'm down for diversity training next week (for the umpteenth time).
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-21-2004, 05:21 PM   #106
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Heck i'm the same way. I only have two speeds and they're "is it dead?" and "damn the orpedos, full-speed-ahead". Unfortunately 30-something years of the latter caused a lot of my hair to fall out and a lot of teeth grinding, bad sleep and so forth. I dont miss it. A few hours at the quick-e mart might be acceptable if necessary, but I dont think it will be necessary.

AND I ENJOY MY LETHARGIC ECCENTRICITY DAMMIT! (sniff sniff) at least i'm not stale yet.
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-28-2004, 06:52 AM   #107
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Of course Dr. Kevorkian needed to be thrown in jail. He helped the AMA's best customers escape paying the AMA. The U.S. has some of the most inhumane and antiquated laws in the developed world. A lot of the laws have to do with keeping the masses enslaved rather than making life enjoyable and efficient.

Quote:


The main problem with the Medical System is that 70% of the costs of Medical Care is administered in the last year of the Patients life. This is a statisical fact! - In other words these very expensive procedures do not work most of the time!

As, with other insurance the healthy people pick up the tab for the ones using the insurance. As a society we have not figured out how to die gracefully. We actually go out of the way to punish people like Dr. Kevorkian who are only trying to help terminally ill people! Performing very expensive operations on people over age 80 - IMHO - should only be done if the patient can come up with the money themselves, rather than sucking up insurance money from younger workers.

At least with Medical Insurance, you have a choice - you can always choose not to buy it. My Threshold is about $20,000 a year - If it gets more than this - I won't buy it!
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-28-2004, 07:59 AM   #108
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Quote:
-- I am already eccentric and I'm trying desperately to hang on to the tiny shred of eccentricity that hasn't been beaten out of me in the workplace. Besides, my favorite people are eccentric.
"Eccentric" simply means "unconventional." Anybody who thinks that there is anything necessarily wrong with that must be about as interesting as a head of cabbage. I doubt that anything of lasting benefit to mankind was ever accomplished by anyone who was not, by definition, eccentric.
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-30-2004, 07:55 AM   #109
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

If $50 a day won't work, then our strategy of having 1 million dollars being tapped at a 4% withdrawel rate for retirement is doomed. (I got that gameplan from this site).

I figure 365 x 50 = 18,250 x 2 (my wife) = 36,500 a year.

I was planning on having a paid home, but as everyone knows there's taxes, insurance, etc... Maybe I should up my savings requirement to 2 million. There goes my ER plans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-30-2004, 11:08 AM   #110
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Hi airstyle,

I've seen this figure tossed around and have been aware of it since I read Terhorst's book many years ago. In fact, that was the very first book I ever read about ER/personal finance, and I credit them for getting me onto this track.

But $50/day is just a discussion point. There is no substitute for tracking one's expenses. I wouldn't even consider ER unless I knew what it cost me to live over the past 12 months. But I wouldn't stop there. One must examine those figures in a way that allows one to deal with the lumpy expenses (car, appliances, etc.). In other words, I may have had no car expenses last year, but the year before that I paid $20,000 for a car! Those expenses MUST be accounted for!

So I think it is very important that EVERY expense must be converted into either a monthly or an annual expense. If you buy a car every seven years, take the price of a car, add taxes, etc., and divide it by seven. That's what it costs you per year to have a car. But you must also maintain that car, so you need to estimate what that will cost, and I always estimate a bit high. Do that with every single expense and you'll know what it costs you to live now. The total cost for me and my wife is about $44,000 - $46,000 per year, with a big chunk going to health care.

One should also know how much of those expenses can be trimmed during difficult times. I'm working on that now. In other words, could I survive on $30,000 if I had to for a year or two? What could be cut?

One must also know what one-time major expenses are coming (as best you can) and account for those. For example, I have a daughter going to college. And probably her future wedding. I want to move to a better house. I plan to buy a bunch of stuff to make the house better, etc. So I have made a shopping list and searched prices. I know that I need to set aside about $140,000 for these things.

There are many unknowns in ER. So I don't think I can afford not to know with certainty how much it cost me, personally, to live in the past twelve months after factoring in all the lumpy expenses and the big bogey-man (health care). I wouldn't even consider ER without knowing that.

It also helps to hear the experiences of those who are already there. I especially enjoy hearing from those who started out with far less than I and still made it (people like John Galt), and those in this thread who are living on far less than I plan to. It enables me to feel that I have a cushion, just in case I need to cut back.
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-30-2004, 01:06 PM   #111
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Inflation is a huge factor, since once you are out of the workforce, it is harder to keep up with a rising cost of living. While TIPs give one form of protection, it is not clear to me that the CPI index gives an accurate accounting for what it really costs to live. In particular, I am not too crazy about hedonic adjustments. You need a car, you don't need one with seat warmers. But with hedonic adjusting, you may find that the former $12,000 car is now an admittedly nicer $15,000 car-and that may be considered a 0% change in the transportation component of the CPI. Likewise the SocSec cola. I expect as more and more of government obligations are subject to cola, we will see more and more slippage in the index.

Here is a helpful quote from Ben Franklin, 225 years ago:

"The currency, as we manage it, is a wonderful machine. It performs its Office when we issue it; it pays and clothes Troops, and provides Victuals and Ammunition;and when we are obliged to issue a Quantity excessive, it pays itself of by Depreciation."

Mikey
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-30-2004, 08:57 PM   #112
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

Quote:
Inflation is a huge factor, since once you are out of the workforce, it is harder to keep up with a rising cost of living. While TIPs give one form of protection, it is not clear to me that the CPI index gives an accurate accounting for what it really costs to live. In particular, I am not too crazy about hedonic adjustments. You need a car, you don't need one with seat warmers. But with hedonic adjusting, you may find that the former $12,000 car is now an admittedly nicer $15,000 car-and that may be considered a 0% change in the transportation component of the CPI. Likewise the SocSec cola. I expect as more and more of government obligations are subject to cola, we will see more and more slippage in the index.
It also, IIRC, doesn't count food or energy - a shame we need both to live.
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Re: $50 a day? No way!
Old 01-30-2004, 09:21 PM   #113
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Re: $50 a day? No way!

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It also, IIRC, doesn't count food or energy - a shame we need both to live.
From the CPI FAQ:
http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm

7. What goods and services does the CPI cover?
The CPI represents all goods and services purchased for consumption by the reference population (CPI-U or CPI-W) BLS has classified all expenditure items into more than 200 categories, arranged into eight major groups. Major groups and examples of categories in each are as follows:

FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, full service meals and snacks);
HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture);
APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry);
TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance);
MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services);
RECREATION (televisions, cable television, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).
Also included within these major groups are various government-charged user fees, such as water and sewerage charges, auto registration fees, and vehicle tolls. The CPI also includes taxes (such as sales and excise taxes) that are directly associated with the prices of specific goods and services. However, the CPI excludes taxes (such as income and Social Security taxes) not directly associated with the purchase of consumer goods and services.

The CPI does not include investment items, such as stocks, bonds, real estate, and life insurance. (These items relate to savings and not to day-to-day consumption expenses.)

For each of the more than 200 item categories, BLS has chosen samples of several hundred specific items within selected business establishments frequented by consumers, using scientific statistical procedures, to represent the thousands of varieties available in the marketplace. For example, in a given supermarket, the Bureau may choose a plastic bag of golden delicious apples, U.S. extra fancy grade, weighing 4.4 pounds to represent the "Apples" category.
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