Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-28-2008, 07:58 PM   #41
 
Posts: n/a
CFB the fund has been in existence since 1991 and it's total return in that time is 8.66%.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-28-2008, 09:09 PM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Nothing really horrifying about good quality junk. I have a hunk of vanguards junk fund. Basically when the credit quality is just below investment grade and the yields are running about 5% over treasuries, they're okay.

But junk funds can have an awful lot of correlation with stocks and arent quite like ordinary bonds as far as diversification goes.

You could own a hunk of wellesley, a hunk of vanguards junk bond fund and a small slice of the vanguard convertibles fund and sort of end up in the same place for about 1/4 the expense ratio.
__________________

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 10:32 PM   #43
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,905
I understand that to be truly diversified one should have some presence in most (all?)asset classes. But with some of the more aggresive asset classes I have shown in the past a tendency to buy high and sell low (such as junk bonds and gold) so -knowing my foibles- I'll watch with envy as the other folks rake in the big bucks
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 10:35 PM   #44
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejman View Post
I have shown in the past a tendency to buy high and sell low
Try it the other way for a while, its a lot more fun
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-28-2008, 10:44 PM   #45
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
CFB the fund has been in existence since 1991 and it's total return in that time is 8.66%.
I see the confusion. The fund was available for institutional investment since 1991, but only since 1997 for retail investors. Looks like they changed managers at that time, and again last year.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 01:05 PM   #46
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
I see the confusion. The fund was available for institutional investment since 1991, but only since 1997 for retail investors. Looks like they changed managers at that time, and again last year.
Daniel J. Fuss has been the manager since the fund began.

Does a hunk of wellesley, a hunk of vanguards junk bond fund and a small slice of the vanguard convertibles fund give you the same total gain that LSBRX does?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 01:57 PM   #47
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I'll have to direct you to the clip from the Loomis Sayles web site below on fund managers.

Cant answer your other question without doing a bunch of work that I'm not that interested in doing.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg loomissayles.JPG (40.9 KB, 1 views)
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 03:14 PM   #48
 
Posts: n/a
cfb,

Daniel Fuss has been the head manager of the fund since it's inception.

Is VWEHX Vanguard's junk bond fund? Which fund is Vanguard's convertibles fund?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 05:23 PM   #49
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
CFB the fund has been in existence since 1991 and it's total return in that time is 8.66%.
Tiger, I just ran the numbers for Wellsi/Welltn from 1/1/91 to today and I get a return (per Quicken) of 9.8% I'm not sure exactly what that shows (if anything) but there your are :confused:
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 05:26 PM   #50
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
the head manager
Is that anything like the head nurse?

The vanguard fund information is readily available on vanguards fund site at Vanguard - Mutual funds, IRAs, ETFs, 401(k) plans, and more. If you find anything interesting, let us know.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 06:26 PM   #51
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejman View Post
Tiger, I just ran the numbers for Wellsi/Welltn from 1/1/91 to today and I get a return (per Quicken) of 9.8% I'm not sure exactly what that shows (if anything) but there your are :confused:
Loomis Sayles Institutional Class return since 11/1/91 is 10.68%
Looms Sayles Bond Fund Retail class return since 12/31/96 is 10.4%
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 06:36 PM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger View Post
Loomis Sayles Institutional Class return since 11/1/91 is 10.68%
Looms Sayles Bond Fund Retail class return since 12/31/96 is 10.4%
Wellsi/Welltn since 1/1/88 was 10%

Wellsi/Welltn since 3/1/00 is 8%

Ain't this fun?
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 07:55 PM   #53
 
Posts: n/a
What about since 12/31/96?
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 08:42 PM   #54
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
This sort of dialog seems unproductive.

To directly answer your original question, a portfolio of this fund, an international fund and a tips fund compared to a 50/50 blend of wellesley and wellington would provide:

- Far more international stock and bond exposure
- More risk of principal loss
- Some protection from US currency fluctuations
- Higher fund expenses
- Potentially very high volatility from all three components
- Moderate protection from inflation

I would not recommend such a mixture for a mildly risk averse early retiree looking for good income, low costs, low volatility and a good potential for maintaining pace with inflation. It might be fine for a retiree looking for total return that isnt concerned about fund costs, volatility and a fair degree of tolerance for capital loss.

Was there something else you were looking for?
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 09:19 PM   #55
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post

Was there something else you were looking for?
Yes, an answer from ejman to my last question to him.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 09:46 PM   #56
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Oh.

In that case, the yankees suck.

GO SOX!

__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 10:47 PM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Helen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,354
I love the simplicity of the two funds but my concern would be in the withdrawal phase. If the markets are way down, I would want to pull money from my bond fund. If the markets are way up (hey, it could happen) I would want to pull from my stock funds.

I think balanced funds are great in the accumulation phase, but not so much in the withdrawal phase.
__________________
Helen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 11:02 PM   #58
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
I'd always recommend them (them being any of the above) as a partial holding with other funds fleshing out an asset allocation.

For dead-bang stupid the two fund wellesley/wellington should do. But I'd add some international, some cash/cd's, some smaller allocations to rocket rides like reits, precious metals, emerging markets and perhaps some core stock/bond holdings like TIPS, short term investment grade, TSM, S&P500, etc.

Some folks like their foundation to be pretty solid and something they dont think about while they fiddle around with the shutters and trim paint.

Some folks will drop a mobile home on a pile of sand and buy lots of pink flamingos.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 11:26 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,905
Helen, I have a variety of funds (7 actually ) in my non retirement basket ( 2 of which are Wellsi/Welltn) and they provide a good retirement income. Like I said at the beginning of this thread, I wish this pot was mostly if not all in the Wellsi/Welltn combo. I'm not sure I follow your logic in this not beong desirable in the withdrawal phase.

CFB Agree, diversified portfolio increases portfolio survavility MPT and all that but I hate the complexity.

Tiger, My comments on rates of return before were intended in a humorous vein and I'm not sure if that's how they were taken so I'm not playing no more...
__________________
ejman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2008, 08:09 AM   #60
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Helen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,354
Hi EJMAN,

Well, with a blend fund, which mixes stocks and bonds together, if I wanted to sell some bonds and leave the stocks alone I wouldn't be able to do it. In a case like this year, I think I'd rather sell bonds and live off the proceeds then sell stocks.

I suppose I could have laddered CDs to use during years when the markets are in the tank.

-helen
__________________

__________________
Helen is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VG Wellington Down $1.53? AlmostDone FIRE and Money 11 12-27-2006 10:57 AM
A Basic VG Wellington Question setab FIRE and Money 12 12-07-2006 09:44 PM
Wellington (Fidelity/TR Price) ferco FIRE and Money 5 09-06-2006 01:33 PM
Wellington and Wellsley Tim Bates FIRE and Money 26 03-18-2006 12:49 AM
Wellington & Wellesley ats5g FIRE and Money 9 12-05-2005 04:38 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:57 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.