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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 08:42 AM   #21
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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I put a kitchen knife into one of my fingers by mistake, and six stitches (plus one x-ray) later, I get an ER bill for $800. Thankfully my co-pay is only $50. But how does anyone live without health insurance these days?
If you banked your health insurance premiums, you'd have no problem paying that bill.* *You say that as if health insurance (the alternative), is cheap.

On average, anyone that self insures for anything comes out ahead;* that is unless you have an employer paying a portion of the health insurance.* *If this weren't true, insurance companies wouldn't profit.

Buying insurance is a hedge that you might be worse off than average.* That's the reason i personally despise insurance; because i'm rarely worse than average on anything.

Azanon
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 08:48 AM   #22
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by Azanon
If you banked your health insurance premiums, you'd have no problem paying that bill.* *You say that as if health insurance (the alternative), is cheap.

On average, anyone that self insures for anything comes out ahead;* that is unless you have an employer paying a portion of the health insurance.* *If this weren't true, insurance companies wouldn't profit.

Buying insurance is a hedge that you might be worse off than average.* That's the reason i personally despise insurance; because i'm rarely worse than average on anything.

Azanon
Hmmm, so you'd be willing to bank those healthcare premiums and chance the million dollar hospital bill that would wipe you out? You'd be willing to forgo liability insurance and chance getting sued for millions?
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 08:56 AM   #23
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azanon
If you banked your health insurance premiums, you'd have no problem paying that bill. You say that as if health insurance (the alternative), is cheap.

On average, anyone that self insures for anything comes out ahead; that is unless you have an employer paying a portion of the health insurance. If this weren't true, insurance companies wouldn't profit.
Not true for health insurance. The negotiated discount that health insurers receive is like a 50% off coupon. Then the ins. co. pays their part and you pay your part (of the negotiated price). The $800 ER bill will probably be $300-400 after the negotiated discount.
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 09:15 AM   #24
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

Half hour visit with the dermatologist to remove one basel cell carcinoma and one mole and freeze two others:* $495, insurance covered charge $229.72. According to the statement my responsibility is $126.85.* I will likely pay the leftover 138.43. This doesn't include the lab bill* of about $250. Total $745. Not much $$ relative to the big hospital bills quoted here but consider that I go to the dermatologist at least twice a year for these skin cancer treatments.

With a little syringe of anaesthetic and a scalpel I could have removed these moles myself or asked a medical friend.* Wonder where to order medical supplies? Canada, Mexico? Or maybe I should spend $3000 and become a medical assistant myself and take care of these small procedures. Is that the future recourse in this day of rising medical costs?
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 09:41 AM   #25
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

When you work it out, after overhead and all expenses, dermatologists average around $250-$300/hour. That seems fair when compared to lawyers and other professionals. The one advantage that dermatologists have is that they can work as much as they want, but there are other downsides, like lawsuits, having to be on call (maybe not derms, but other specialists), etc...
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:13 AM   #26
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
I had a root canal on a molar last week (lucky me ). Amazingly fast (30 minutes after the local anesthetic took), painless, and easy.

Until I got the bill: $1050. Most painful painless procedure I've ever had.
A thirty minute painless root canal!!! I would pay double what you did and count myself lucky
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:32 AM   #27
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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But how does anyone live without health insurance these days?
Let's say you didn't have insurance or much money. Could you have survived without going to the emergency room? If you'd just bound the finger up tight, would the bleeding have stopped?

Maybe your finger would have looked funny, and you would have had a big scar, but maybe that's how someone without insurance would have handled it.
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:37 AM   #28
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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*I think it is totally irresponsible of you not to have negotiated a little more. *If you had been paying the bill yourself you probably would have gotten it down to $100 per stitch. *We all pay for this kind of apathy. * *
That's right. Let the buyer beware. Why burden the business sector with *not being allowed to swindle people. All they want is your money after all.

When unfortunate expenses hit people it's clearly their own fault. If it hits business it's the Goverment's fault, or lazy workers, or Unions, or Taxes, or *something else. But it's NEVER their fault.

I remember how at age 17 I outnegotiated the entire USAF for a compensation package that the Generals would have DIED for. *And I knew several coal miners at the time who aced out the mine operating corporation for better pay and working conditions than the other miners got because they were just that good! It's all about personal responsibility



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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:47 AM   #29
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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The comment was a joke it but it probably closer to the truth than realized. Many individuals with health care do not even consider the cost when they have procedure that is unnecessary preformed. I truly believe there is much to be said about needless procedure being preformed that helps drive the cost of health care higher. Something must be done before it is too late.Runnerr
The ONLY people who A) do not care about the cost of things BY DEFINITION are The Rich

B ) The ONLY people who can engage in unnecessay procedures are THE RICH. You really think Mrs Drysdale's liposuction and nose jobs are what's making running up the cost of medical care and insurance? If it is the wealth distribution is even more busted than the worst estimates.


PEOPLE can't determine what's necessary or UNnecesary That is what we are paying the G/D doctor to know. Go back and read my postings concering all the money doctors have cost me in FAKE medical work, for FAKE diseases and REAL adverse drug reactions from drugs I didnt need for diseases I didnt have. ALL unnecessary. ALL the doctor's fault.

The doctor says you have cancer how the F can YOU tell if that's true or if all the money you're about to spend s unnecessary?

What's UNecessar? And how would you know? And why is it OK for Mrs Drysdale to get her ass lifted? You know that cost is counted in "medical spending" but it is all bought and paid for up front. Maybe you should deduct unnecssary spending from the amounts spent on health care since only Rich people are paying for it.
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:52 AM   #30
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Maybe your finger would have looked funny, and you would have had a big scar, but maybe that's how someone without insurance would have handled it
And maybe 12-24 hours later she'd be in shock from a massive infection. Then she'd need large doses of expensive antibiotic (even tho the doctor knows a cheaper drug would work just as well ) and 2 days in the hospital . And maybe (odds are good) they'd give her a fluoroquinolone and she'd end up with some hideous adverse reaction resulting in loss of ability to work and months of therapy

And you (or some here) would bitch that: Well, how stupid can that perosn be? Everybody knows when that happens you should see the doctor. That's what emergency rooms are for"
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 10:59 AM   #31
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by Azanon
If you banked your health insurance premiums, you'd have no problem paying that bill.* *You say that as if health insurance (the alternative), is cheap.

On average, anyone that self insures for anything comes out ahead;* that is unless you have an employer paying a portion of the health insurance.* *If this weren't true, insurance companies wouldn't profit.

Buying insurance is a hedge that you might be worse off than average.* That's the reason i personally despise insurance; because i'm rarely worse than average on anything.

Azanon
Keep in mind the poster above almost certainly has the best health-insurance YOUR tax dollars can provided. So while its a good idea for *you* to risk total financial ruin by being "below average", I don't beleive he is taking that same risk. Don't ou love when other people give you advice on how to run your life but do the opposite for themselves?
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 11:13 AM   #32
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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If you banked your health insurance premiums, you'd have no problem paying that bill. You say that as if health insurance (the alternative), is cheap.

On average, anyone that self insures for anything comes out ahead; that is unless you have an employer paying a portion of the health insurance. If this weren't true, insurance companies wouldn't profit.

Buying insurance is a hedge that you might be worse off than average. That's the reason i personally despise insurance; because i'm rarely worse than average on anything.Azanon

Quote:
Keep in mind the poster above almost certainly has the best health-insurance YOUR tax dollars can provided. So while its a good idea for *you* to risk total financial ruin by being "below average", I don't beleive he is taking that same risk. Don't ou love when other people give you advice on how to run your life but do the opposite for themselves?
Not only that but the solution by some is always to play Russian Roulette. The gun hasnt gone off in their mouths yet so it must be a good way to go, no? You should try it. Works for me. A great and wealthy nation and we cant do any better for the necessities of life than "Play russian roullette" And they never bear any risk. They just advocate it for YOU

Secondly, all that nonsense about sef-insurance, HSA, and etc only works if you A) make a lot of money. And B) never get so sick you can't work. In order for that scheme to work you first have to get out in front of "capitalism" and make sure everybody aways has a job and that all jobs always pay enought to cover these unreasonable expenses other people wish to levy on you.

You think they want people to make all the money that is needed to live in this world? The Rich will never let it happen
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 11:25 AM   #33
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

If Ms. Richlady wants a boob job, ass lift, belly tuck, liposuck, etc. she is paying for it out of her own pocket. *Health insurance does not cover these procedures so there is no effect on them, you or me. *It enriches the MD and the hospital and of course Mr. Richlady because he lives with the visual results. * *

If you are injured or sick and are serious enough that it is clear your life, limb or health are in danger, you would be foolish to not seek out immediate medical attention. *A cold does not qualify. *Medical care is expensive for many reasons and this has been hashed out many times here and elsewhere. *Insuance is not a service it is a commodity that is purchased. *One has a right to use it when needed because you are paying for it. *Insurance is a business it is not a public service. *Businesses survive and grow by making money. *The healthcare system in the US is based on a free economy and prices are set by Federal controls of prices of services and drugs through Medicare/Medicaid and through insurance company controls through "expected and reasonable charges" for goods and services. *Everybody in the system gets a bite of the bill and bills their expenses and profit along the way....just like any other business. *

Somewhere along the way people have felt entitled to free medical care. *There is no provision for that in our society unless you are either retired (post age 65) or "poor." *Otherwise, you are on your own. *It is a pay as you go system. *

We are not entitled to free food, free cars, free electronics, free gas, free utilities, free airfare or anything else so why do some folks feel free medical care is a personal entitlement? *We don't pay for a system to support this and those countries that do have higher taxes and generally fewer service choices and longer waits for less critical procedures. *Price controls are in effect in these countries too which artificially keeps the costs down but stresses the system by forcing cost cutting that eventually affects the quality or quantity of good or service. *Time will tell how long these or our current system survive. *I don't have an answer...I just see first hand how a large portion of it works both in the US and internationally for drugs and medical devices. *
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 11:27 AM   #34
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by Payin-the-Toll
She was mad so she stitched it up with no anesthesia--sure sobered me up.
I've encountered similar sympathetic reactions from a registered nurse parent. *That's the sucky part of being raised by medical professionals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldbabe
With a little syringe of anaesthetic and a scalpel I could have removed these moles myself or asked a medical friend. *Wonder where to order medical supplies? Canada, Mexico? Or maybe I should spend $3000 and become a medical assistant myself and take care of these small procedures. Is that the future recourse in this day of rising medical costs?
Cutting: *$4.95.
Knowing where to cut, how deep, how much, and when: *Priceless...
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 11:42 AM   #35
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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We are not entitled to free food, free cars, free electronics, free gas, free utilities, free airfare or anything else so why do some folks feel free medical care is a personal entitlement?
See Adam Smith.
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 11:57 AM   #36
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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We are not entitled to free food, free cars, free electronics, free gas, free utilities, free airfare or anything else so why do some folks feel free medical care is a personal entitlement?*
SteveR, I don't think anyone said it should be free. ("Free" isn't possible even if we wanted it to be; the money has to come from somewhere.) I think many here, though, have said that the current system is not exceptionally efficient, or cost-effective, or fair.. even for those who are paying into the private system. It's not only about money, it's also about access, which is unfairly regulated by government on the one hand (every state has its own wacky rules) and profit-driven companies on the other.

There is an element of moral obligation in assisting someone who is sick or injured; there is no such moral obligation to give them electronics, cars, or airfare. Geez, I have even seen animals try to help out the sick among them.. can we not at least rise to their level?

I pay for fighter planes that I don't necessarily need/want/use, and defense is 50%-80% of the national budget. We could solve the health care "crisis" for far less.


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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 12:27 PM   #37
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by ladelfina

I pay for fighter planes that I don't necessarily need/want/use, and defense is 50%-80% of the national budget. We could solve the health care "crisis" for far less.
Why do you hate America? Why do you want the terrorists to win?
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 12:35 PM   #38
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

I wanna get OBL more than our fearless leader does, apparently..
I had this in mind: http://www.defensetech.org/archives/000824.html
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 01:17 PM   #39
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by razztazz

The* doctor says you have cancer how the F can YOU tell if that's true or if all the money you're about to spend s unnecessary?
Oh that's true of course but people who get diagnosed with cancer should get on Medline or go the library and read all the literature and make their own decisions, just like those who have a heart attack whose doctors say they need a bypass should get up off the examining table and unhook themselves from their heart monitor and get on the Internet or make an appointment for a second opinion.

There's no excuse for not being objective and doing your due diligence just because you have heart failure or cancer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that argument, just like I love the one about workers should be responsible for their own retirement funds, or find a "responsible" money manager and making sure that manager makes the right decisions. Doesn't matter that you've been working 50 hours a week in the coal mine. Take that extra five hours a week and become a personal money manager too! :
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Re: 6 stitches = $800
Old 09-06-2006, 01:20 PM   #40
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Re: 6 stitches = $800

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Originally Posted by ladelfina
I pay for fighter planes that I don't necessarily need/want/use, and defense is 50%-80% of the national budget. We could solve the health care "crisis" for far less.
I usually don't get trolled, but cite, please.

According to http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=158, it was/is 28.5% for 2006 from a non-profit, non-partisan source. Granted, the link points out that it is rising, but that is a far cry from 50-80%.

2Cor521
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