Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 05:57 PM   #1
Full time employment: Posting here.
UncleHoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
A country of money idiots?

After reading a number of news articles this week about subprime mortgages and the investigations involving the credit card industry I've come to the conclusion we live in a country of idiots when it comes to money.

How can these people function in everyday life and get into so much hot water when it comes to their finances? Is the lure of the good life so blinding they can't see their empty wallets?

This brings to mind a story about one of my nieces seveal years ago. She joined a health club and paid monthly for her membership. After several months she moved and didn't use the club, so she stopped sending in her monthly dues. It didn't take long for the creditors to find her and demand payment on her loan. Loan? Yea a loan, she signed up to pay the annual membership in monthly installments and either didn't know it or conveniently forgot about it. I wonder what she was thinking, if anything?

I think the financial industry in the US has found an unlimited supply of suckers that are ripe for picking. Unfortunatly most of the suckers are poor to start with and getting poorer by the day.

__________________

__________________
100% retired and working hard at it.
UncleHoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 06:01 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: A country of money idiots?

So just what do you propose UncleHenry ? Keep in mind that some people live very well servicing the needs of not-too bright people.

Should we bring back deptors prison ?

Should we severly tighten credit access and credit requirements ?

Can we or should we save people from themselves if possible ? Some people just need to learn through the school of hard knocks.

__________________

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 06:16 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,487
Re: A country of money idiots?

unfortunately, "we" don't restrict "our" idiocy to money
__________________
d is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 08:09 PM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 199
Re: A country of money idiots?

this is an instant gratification culture. it really does sicken me. people bring it upon themselves. when you think you deserve what you have not earned there are going to be ramifications
__________________
newyorklady is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 08:19 PM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 585
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleHoney
After reading a number of news articles this week about subprime mortgages and the investigations involving the credit card industry I've come to the conclusion we live in a country of idiots when it comes to money.
You mean these same people selected our current president? - How could that be?
__________________
Cut-Throat is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 08:27 PM   #6
Full time employment: Posting here.
UncleHoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
You mean these same people selected our current president? - How could that be?
Maybe it was the promise of a chicken in every pot and and the fear of WMD's, who knows.

__________________
100% retired and working hard at it.
UncleHoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 08:31 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
UncleHoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterblaster
So just what do you propose UncleHenry ? Keep in mind that some people live very well servicing the needs of not-too bright people.

Should we bring back deptors prison ?

Should we severly tighten credit access and credit requirements ?

Can we or should we save people from themselves if possible ? Some people just need to learn through the school of hard knocks.

You got me on this one. Maybe a license to spend money?

The big problem is that most of us will end up paying for all their mistakes after the government figures out they need to fix the problem.
__________________
100% retired and working hard at it.
UncleHoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 09:11 PM   #8
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 27
Re: A country of money idiots?

One thing we can do is make it much harder to declare bankrupcy, or at least make it a lifetime penalty.

If somone is fiscally irrresponsable, that's it, game over, no second chances. It should be a permanent blackmark on their credit record.

I went from 50k in debt to six-figure positive net worth (including my home mortgage...which is offset by significant equity in investment properties) in less than 10 years. So I really don't want to hear about 'how hard it is' from someone in the hole.

Call me a mean bastard, but I'm getting really tired of paying for everyone else.

I'm working on my taxes...can you tell

-Warthog


__________________
-Warthog
Warthog is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 09:19 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
wabmester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
Re: A country of money idiots?

What problem are you guys trying to solve?

The subprime borrowers got to live in a big house.

The seller of the house got top dollar.

The brokers made a killing.

The lender sold the loan to somebody else.

The only loser in this scenario is the investor who bought the CMO and mispriced the risk. So are we calling investors idiots?
__________________
wabmester is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 09:21 PM   #10
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 199
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warthog
One thing we can do is make it much harder to declare bankrupcy, or at least make it a lifetime penalty.

If somone is fiscally irrresponsable, that's it, game over, no second chances. It should be a permanent blackmark on their credit record.

I went from 50k in debt to six-figure positive net worth (including my home mortgage...which is offset by significant equity in investment properties) in less than 10 years. So I really don't want to hear about 'how hard it is' from someone in the hole.

Call me a mean bastard, but I'm getting really tired of paying for everyone else.

I'm working on my taxes...can you tell

-Warthog


the laws were already changed. much harder now. good thing in my opinion, but a shame that the media pushes material goods and makes credit easy with no financial education.
__________________
newyorklady is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 09:42 PM   #11
Full time employment: Posting here.
UncleHoney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Columbus
Posts: 769
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
What problem are you guys trying to solve?

The subprime borrowers got to live in a big house.

The seller of the house got top dollar.

The brokers made a killing.

The lender sold the loan to somebody else.

The only loser in this scenario is the investor who bought the CMO and mispriced the risk. So are we calling investors idiots?
I guess if you look at from the point of view that the buyer was just paying rent for the time they lived there then that's true.

But it sure looks like a setup from the get-go as far as passing the buck, or should we say the nonexistent buck.

The other losers are the people that bought into neighborhoods only to find out after a year that 30%-40% of the homes are in foreclosure and their home values are going down by the day.
__________________
100% retired and working hard at it.
UncleHoney is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 10:25 PM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 423
Re: A country of money idiots?

What about lenders offering 500k interest-only mortgages to people who make 15k a year? But it is okay, they can just collect a check when the going is good, and when the going gets bad, sell off the loans, and declare bankruptcy just like the "homeowner".

Or, how about state farm. Let's collect an insurance payment monthly, and if you are ever late, we're coming after your ass or dropping your coverage.

Oh crap, a hurricane just hit your house! I know we collected a check for 10 years that if we even invested in govt bonds, we could cover all your damages, but instead, we'll just declare bankruptcy as well and expect a bail out from the govt! We can pay you out with government money, and then become solvent again and begin collecting checks once more!

I think the irresponsibility works at every level. Dumb homeowner, dumb lender, dumb insurance company, All money is dumb money! Or wait, maybe it is genius. One or the other

Either way, sounds like a nice racket!
__________________
Olav23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 10:28 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 13,283
Re: A country of money idiots?

When I was living in London there were many people who lived on overdrafts.. no savings at all... much more than people here IMO..

But, people here are taught that it is the payment, not the price that is important... I have heard many times from people "I can afford $500 per month for a car".... well, if that is what you think, they got you...

What is also so surprising... a lot of these people are SMART... so why do they get brain freeze when it comes to money
__________________
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-07-2007, 10:36 PM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 199
Re: A country of money idiots?

well, i lived in london too, and the new laws haven't catched up there yet. cheers.
__________________
newyorklady is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 08:48 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Historic Florida
Posts: 1,647
Re: A country of money idiots?

A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleHoney
How can these people function in everyday life and get into so much hot water when it comes to their finances?
Good Job Breathing isinvoluntary, otherwise 80% of the population would be dead!

SWR
__________________
"Arguing with an Engineer is like rolling in the mud with a pig. Just remember that the pig likes it."
ShokWaveRider is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 08:56 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
What problem are you guys trying to solve?

The subprime borrowers got to live in a big house.

The seller of the house got top dollar.

The brokers made a killing.

The lender sold the loan to somebody else.

The only loser in this scenario is the investor who bought the CMO and mispriced the risk. So are we calling investors idiots?
The real loser(s) is(are) the people who get up and go to work everyday that pay their bills on time and who think that if they borrow money from someone then they have an obligation to pay iy back.

Those people lose in that the interest rate they are charged and the built in price they pay has a hidden tax on it to support the deadbeats. So the people who pay their bills are living less well so that Jonny Deadbeat can live "the good life".

That in a nutshell is the inherent unfairness of the current system.
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 09:48 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pasadena CA
Posts: 2,695
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterblaster
The real loser(s) is(are) the people who get up and go to work everyday that pay their bills on time and who think that if they borrow money from someone then they have an obligation to pay iy back.

Those people lose in that the interest rate they are charged and the built in price they pay has a hidden tax on it to support the deadbeats. So the people who pay their bills are living less well so that Jonny Deadbeat can live "the good life"..
I certainly understand the sentiment and I personally hate debt. But the business system is *supposed* to address this by having lower loan rates for good borrowers. A lifetime ago, B&W movies & small towns, the local banker made loans where the character of the borrower was a major component of the loan decision. Now, in our rational world its all numbers & charts. But that is where we are and for the folks lending out money, they have to deal with the market and hope to get a good return.
__________________
T.S. Eliot:
Old men ought to be explorers
yakers is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 10:48 AM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
perinova's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 424
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yakers
I certainly understand the sentiment and I personally hate debt. But the business system is *supposed* to address this by having lower loan rates for good borrowers. A lifetime ago, B&W movies & small towns, the local banker made loans where the character of the borrower was a major component of the loan decision. Now, in our rational world its all numbers & charts. But that is where we are and for the folks lending out money, they have to deal with the market and hope to get a good return.
Yep ethics plays a role in the problem too. YOu would not want to lend to crooks. But also you shouldn't lend money to an idiot who doesn't realize he won't be able to pay it back.
Or lending money on bad terms is another example. IMHO interest only loans are simply extortion: same as renting but all the liability!!! The house belong to the bank all the time. WTF.
__________________
perinova is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 04:15 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,155
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleHoney
How can these people function in everyday life and get into so much hot water when it comes to their finances? Is the lure of the good life so blinding they can't see their empty wallets?
My question is why are you upset about other people sloppy finances? I can understand it if your ultimate motive is to help them better themselves. If so, start helping, it will be very rewarding, imo.
__________________
Sam is offline   Reply With Quote
Re: A country of money idiots?
Old 03-08-2007, 04:44 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
tryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,449
Re: A country of money idiots?

Quote:
Is the lure of the good life so blinding they can't see
Short answer ... YES.

Long answer ... It took a whole circus of "performers" to get to this point.

The ring leader is the realtor(s) who called upon the clowns (lawyers, mortgage broker and underwriter, appraiser, and finally the home inspector) to entertain the buyer so they will sign away thier lives without reading any of the print (large OR small).

On the bright side, I read Freddy is forcing tougher standards. For example a borrower will have to qualify at the UPPER end of the ARM before they'll buy the loan. WOW ... finally ... it's not rocket science, people!
__________________

__________________
FIRE'd since 2005
tryan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Book report: Running Money Nords Other topics 0 11-05-2005 10:52 AM
Time vs. Money Mountain_Mike Other topics 40 10-23-2005 09:28 PM
Borrowing money during retirement. proud_texan FIRE and Money 2 09-11-2003 06:05 PM
Money market in 401K Bill FIRE and Money 2 05-31-2003 08:15 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:20 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.