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Old 06-20-2011, 08:08 PM   #21
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My dad did. He needed $15k to keep out of bankruptcy & losing the 200 acre farm. I offered $5k to him and asked that he ask one of his 3 other kids or 7 siblings as I would have to raid some of our daughter's college fund. He ended up not taking it & going bankrupt. I don't have much to do with him now or then, so probably just as well.

p.s. based on the #'s he told me, he couldn't afford the farm anyhow, but I was willing to lose $5k to prove my willingness to help. He left us at 5 yrs old and didn't look back, therefore the lack of relationship. He lives simple on 10 acres and a home he built (kind of weird, but paid for). I'm glad he's doing ok & he probably learned a lot from his bankruptcy, I know I did.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:19 PM   #22
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You're not far off...
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:26 PM   #23
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Interesting that he has 3 EXs that loves him still....
... but apparently not enough to support his lifestyle?
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:45 PM   #24
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I suppose I would have no problem with how anyone else spends/saves their money. The problem comes when the "grasshopper" wants to eat some of my stash later on. Unfortunately, there's always someone willing to buy the grasshopper's vote with my money.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:47 PM   #25
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I have a very old friend who is in a similar situation. We've know each other since second grade and both studied finance at the university. He went into the savings and loan biz and I went back to school to study one of the sciences. Not the playboy type, but definately lived it up.

Before going dropping out of communication a few months ago, he was checking emails at the library and getting snail mail at a post office box. He had been unemployed for about two years and zipped through his 401k and any equity in his assets. Sort of sad for someone with a degree, decent experience, and a desire to work.

Though as they say, a fool and his money are soon parted.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:26 PM   #26
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I have to stretch hard to have much sympathy for the teacher who never noticed that she wasn't contributing to social security and was surprised to learn she wasn't going to get benefits from it. Likewise she must not have read any of the pension information or 403b information provided by her employer.

The former highly paid financial guy I have even less sympathy for. His business was finance.

I understand that some people are intimidated by money issues and do have some sympathy that it can be hard for them to understand and do the right thing. I don't think that means society should stand ready to reward them for their poor decision making when they had the opportunity to do it themselves but chose not to. Those who struggled with low wages and limited opportunities should be supported with dignity. Those who squandered their resources shouldn't get unlimited do overs at the expense of those who sacrificed to provide for their own future.
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:22 AM   #27
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I have to stretch hard to have much sympathy for the teacher who never noticed that she wasn't contributing to social security and was surprised to learn she wasn't going to get benefits from it. Likewise she must not have read any of the pension information or 403b information provided by her employer.

The former highly paid financial guy I have even less sympathy for. His business was finance.

I understand that some people are intimidated by money issues and do have some sympathy that it can be hard for them to understand and do the right thing. I don't think that means society should stand ready to reward them for their poor decision making when they had the opportunity to do it themselves but chose not to. Those who struggled with low wages and limited opportunities should be supported with dignity. Those who squandered their resources shouldn't get unlimited do overs at the expense of those who sacrificed to provide for their own future.
You would be surprised, I take that back ASTOUNDED, at how many educators are clueless about their pensions and what they will get from it. Since Texas Teachers are one of about a dozen states that don't pay into SS her pension should be a lot higher. She must not have worked anywhere near 30 years and got confused with the difference between retirement eligible and full retirement. The only benefit of the doubt you could give her was that remaining divorced she maybe thought she could capture some SS through her ex's SS benefit and the GPO got her.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:12 AM   #28
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Yes, I can understand if expected to claim on a divorced record being confused by the eligibility required, and with only the snippet of information we have maybe that's all that was meant. But the message that you need to understand your pension (if any) and have savings of your own has been pretty consistently broadcast for decades. It's hard to claim ignorance of the idea that you likely will eventually retire, or that once retired you will need to use money.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:48 AM   #29
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In theory what you say is true. And no it truly isn't fair.

But what would you do if it was your father that showed up homeless, hungry, and cold.

Would you say " Oh Sorry dad - You have to go live under a bridge"
I did not say it would not be an emotional issue for the children.

Of course, being a distant observer with the story laid out as it is... Do you feel sorry for this guy?

Fortunately my parents were very, very responsible. Their LBYM lessons are my template. Would I have helped them if they were in need? Surely.

Here is the reason for my seemingly cold response... I have helped a couple of siblings that are financially irresponsible. The usual approach, seems to be... call up with their crisis and ask for a loan (that is never paid back). I have forgiven the loans. They need not call anymore. I learned my lesson.

You can not fix a lifelong habit of financial carelessness (unless I suppose one is rich and inclined to do it). It is too late. I certainly would not subsidize his lifestyle.... which will surely continue as long as he can.

I would sit down and try to help him figure out how to manage his very strict budget on SS. Bottom line... he needs to go back to work and wait to draw SS till 70. But I dare say, he probably is not interested in advice... rather free money to make his problem go away!
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Old 06-21-2011, 07:37 AM   #30
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Yes, I can understand if expected to claim on a divorced record being confused by the eligibility required, and with only the snippet of information we have maybe that's all that was meant. But the message that you need to understand your pension (if any) and have savings of your own has been pretty consistently broadcast for decades. It's hard to claim ignorance of the idea that you likely will eventually retire, or that once retired you will need to use money.
*sigh* if only it were so simple.

For me (and most here), this stuff comes as naturally as breathing. Since I breathe, eat and crap this sort of thing, it is at first glance really tough to understand the cluelessness of at least half the general population on matters of personal finance. People are astounded that I read contracts before I sign them and they regard anything more complicated than a checking account as voodoo/alien technology. Most people have never been taught this stuff, and many seem incapable of really learning even when you teach them. I don't know why this is the case, but it appears to be a fact of life. That being the case, I think there should always be a an option of a simple, straightforward financial product in every market that should be the default for consumers; people should be automatically enrolled in a retirement pan where they work (compulsory would be even better); and a required perasonal finance class should be taught in each year of HS. I suppose that is all as likely as me flying my dining room table to the moon...
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:14 AM   #31
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*sigh* if only it were so simple.

For me (and most here), this stuff comes as naturally as breathing. Since I breathe, eat and crap this sort of thing, it is at first glance really tough to understand the cluelessness of at least half the general population on matters of personal finance. People are astounded that I read contracts before I sign them and they regard anything more complicated than a checking account as voodoo/alien technology. Most people have never been taught this stuff, and many seem incapable of really learning even when you teach them. I don't know why this is the case, but it appears to be a fact of life. That being the case, I think there should always be a an option of a simple, straightforward financial product in every market that should be the default for consumers; people should be automatically enrolled in a retirement pan where they work (compulsory would be even better); and a required personal finance class should be taught in each year of HS. I suppose that is all as likely as me flying my dining room table to the moon...
+1, with additional sighing...

Conversation with 70 year old parents on Father's Day went something like this--"well, you know how much money you need to live on, right? Okay, well if you have enough saved plus your SS, then Dad can quit teaching. If not, he's got to keep working. I know you want to retire, but if you don't have enough money, you can't. And if his health gets too bad to teach, you are probably going to have to sell the house to reduce your expenses". Lots more sighing...

I tried very hard during and since this conversation not to remember all the money they have spent on themselves and my brother over the years, while we were saving and preparing for our own future.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:48 AM   #32
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But what would you do if it was your father that showed up homeless, hungry, and cold.
I'd tell him to go to hell (if there is one, I'm sure that he's there, and plenty warm).

He "stole my youth" from me (long story) for more than a decade in my teen years to make his current life at the time - along with his "2nd family" who I actually supported (however unknown at the time), better.

I owe him less than nothing.

(Sorry for venting - but these kinds of statements of how I am expected to support those that bore me, get me going ). My parents had little responsibilty for me (other than having unprotected sex, which resulted in me). I feel no responsibility for them (even if they were still alive).

They lived their lives, in their own manner. I live my life in my own - which dosen't include expecting my childern are responsible for me, in my remaining years.

If my parents (even if still alive) screwed up their own lives - they are responsible for it. Not me. Let them find their own way.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:57 AM   #33
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I tend to think of it this way, he did teach me how not to be. I had years 0-4, then every other weekend years 5-9-ish. Then 1-2 weeks through 14.

Age 15 I was accused (and not defended by him) of turning them into the IRS by stealing documents from their office...didn't know I was so wise in my early years...then cussed out by his wife in front of him & all he could say was "just apologize"...that was a crappy day. I didn't reply, just got back in the vehicle and drove 5 hours back home.

Didn't see him again until his father's funeral at 20-ish; wife still crazy peeved at me, walked away again. 20 years later, I've replaced him with friends much wiser & not married 4 times.

We all have dysfunctional fams, huh?
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:00 AM   #34
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We all have dysfunctional fams, huh?
Maybe not all, but more than some will admit ...

But you are correct in your statment. I belive that those of us that have gone through these "tribulations" are better for it - by not following the path of those that have gone before.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:02 AM   #35
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I just try to be the better than average stepfather & hubby...our daughter is great!
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:03 AM   #36
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I just try to be the better than average stepfather & hubby...our daughter is great!
Good 4 U ...
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:08 AM   #37
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Great post Brewer. I agree. I think part of the problem seems to be the general "dumbing down" of our society. Examples might include, cable news, our politics, reality shows, some newspapers(USA Today), gossip mags, our pre ocupation with celebrity, I could go on. Not too surprising that in this environement financial matters don't get much attention.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:11 AM   #38
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Great post Brewer. I agree. I think part of the problem seems to be the general "dumbing down" of our society. Examples might include, cable news, our politics, reality shows, some newspapers(USA Today), gossip mags, our pre ocupation with celebrity, I could go on. Not too surprising that in this environement financial matters don't get much attention.
I'd like to think it is a dumbing down of society, but realistically I think it is the bringing of popular media down to the level of the average viewer.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:13 AM   #39
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We all have dysfunctional fams, huh?
No, fortunately not all of us.

I can't say enough good things about my folks. Married for 60+ years, frugal by necessity. Mom was a stay at home type and dad's max annual income was four (4) figures in the 1960's. Raised four kids, managed to save $140k, paid off the house and retired at age 62. Lived comfortably off their nest egg and SS until age 90, then left enough to support my mom until her death two years later.

He/they set a great example for me and I'll be eternally grateful to them for their gift of love and support.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:34 AM   #40
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*sigh* if only it were so simple.

For me (and most here), this stuff comes as naturally as breathing.

I hear 'ya, but I'm going to take an alternate view...

Sure, financial stuff seems complex to may people. But I'd bet that most people don't have a good understanding of how their car works, and the many subsystems (ICE, lubrication, cooling, suspension, tires, electrical, HVAC, computer controls, etc). Yet, generally, people manage to get their oil changed, their tires rotated/replaced, etc, as needed.

The owner's manual spells it out, and to some degree people are 'educated' that they need to do routine maintenance on their cars. It basically works. Now, I could go to great lengths to make changing your oil complex, with long descriptions of viscosity, shear strength, the pressure on bearings, film breakdown, oil dilution, acidification, the breakdown of additives, etc. But people don't need to know the complexities. Just follow the general guidelines in the owners manual, and you'll be OK.



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That being the case, I think there should always be a an option of a simple, straightforward financial product in every market that should be the default for consumers; people should be automatically enrolled in a retirement pan where they work (compulsory would be even better); and a required perasonal finance class should be taught in each year of HS. I suppose that is all as likely as me flying my dining room table to the moon...
Exactly. I'll take it further (and have in previous posts), and say that that education ought to be a required annual meeting at every employer. Every paycheck should have some little reminder of how much you need to save to have $ to replace your income at age 65, or something along those lines.

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