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Old 06-21-2011, 09:39 AM   #41
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You know, my mom is as financially ignorant as the least, but she knows a basic truism...live on less than you make, save the rest & rely on the VA for healthcare. She's always worked part time and lived annually on what we spend in about 3 months.

I've taken on her "extra" monies and invest it for her and she just doesn't worry as much as I do about it...
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:01 AM   #42
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My "poster child" for this scenario is DW's brother and his wife. She's the big spender, three new cars in the last six or seven years, $3k+ vacations in SC at least once a year when there is a free vacation home available 1/2 hour drive farther south, but my gosh, she'd have to make her own bed, take out the trash, cook meals, and it's two blocks from the beach instead of oceanfront!

They are in their fifties and still living paycheck-to-paycheck. In my early 30's I chose a divorce over going down that road. For retirement income she's counting on at most $150k in a 401k, hubby's National Guard pension, SS, and shopping at the PX. At least they're eligible for VA health benefits. A year ago they took out a consolidation loan to pay off the credit cards, then headed for the beach a week later.

And she is the one who (not openly) sneers at us. This is the one who was stunned into silence when DW let it slip that we're putting $2k/month into savings/investments, trying to get her head wrapped around this apparently foreign concept.

When hubby can't work anymore I think they're in for a very rude awakening. And that grasshopper will find the door to this anthill firmly shut.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:11 AM   #43
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*sigh* if only it were so simple.
For me (and most here), this stuff comes as naturally as breathing. Since I breathe, eat and crap this sort of thing, it is at first glance really tough to understand the cluelessness of at least half the general population on matters of personal finance.
You probably feel the same way about reading nuclear reactor plant manuals that I feel about reading bond offerings and IPO prospectii.

However we can both use electricity and invest in bonds, so I think the problems come when people can't (or won't) take responsibility.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:17 AM   #44
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I'd tell him to go to hell (if there is one, I'm sure that he's there, and plenty warm).

He "stole my youth" from me (long story) for more than a decade in my teen years to make his current life at the time - along with his "2nd family" who I actually supported (however unknown at the time), better.

I owe him less than nothing.

(Sorry for venting - but these kinds of statements of how I am expected to support those that bore me, get me going ). My parents had little responsibilty for me (other than having unprotected sex, which resulted in me). I feel no responsibility for them (even if they were still alive).

They lived their lives, in their own manner. I live my life in my own - which dosen't include expecting my childern are responsible for me, in my remaining years.

If my parents (even if still alive) screwed up their own lives - they are responsible for it. Not me. Let them find their own way.
I am sorry for you that things went the way they did. Not everyone grows up in a happy family situation.

For me personally - If only it could be, to have my father show up at my door !
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:19 AM   #45
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I can't say enough good things about my folks. Married for 60+ years, frugal by necessity.
He/they set a great example for me and I'll be eternally grateful to them for their gift of love and support.
Bravo for you, REWahoo. Your story sounds like my parents, except cancer caught up with my dad after about 51 years of happy marriage. 8 years later my mom still misses him terribly.

I feel very fortunate to have had such great parents.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:22 PM   #46
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There are lots of examples around here. Many people worked their asses off in the 40s, 50s and 60s to build up a successful farming operation that supported them and their children. When the parents died the kids had to have a McMansion, new cars for everyone in the family (high school kids driving new cars to school), and all new farm equipment. A lot of them went broke and lost everything.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:34 PM   #47
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There are lots of examples around here. Many people worked their asses off in the 40s, 50s and 60s to build up a successful farming operation that supported them and their children. When the parents died the kids had to have a McMansion, new cars for everyone in the family (high school kids driving new cars to school), and all new farm equipment. A lot of them went broke and lost everything.
That is interesting, I would have thought that farm families would be somewhat immune from this, but I guess not.

In well to do suburbs it is endemic. Kids driving their own Mustangs, Beemers, etc. to school. It was even common when I was in high school, a long time ago. My parents were much more frugal, and I thought they were just stingy, but really they were right. Although most of my friends' parents did fine too- they were high earners, and it was hard not do well in America back then.

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Old 06-21-2011, 02:44 PM   #48
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American farmers weren't done in just by some oerindulging their families. I remember when the Farm Aid concert was held in 1985--there was a lot of pressure on the American farms:

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In the 1980s, American farmers were hit hard by what were, at the time, the worst economic conditions since the Great Depression. Droughts ravaged the fields, property values plunged, loan interest rates soared, thousands were forced off their land and faced foreclosure and bankruptcy. The number of suicides among male farmers in the Upper Midwest reached double the national average, according to a study by the National Farm Medicine Center. And in 1985, the Los Angeles Times dubbed farm policy one of the "toughest issues confronting Congress."

Read more: A Brief History of Farm Aid - TIME
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:50 PM   #49
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Kids driving their own Mustangs, Beemers, etc. to school. It was even common when I was in high school, a long time ago.
I'll bet it really chapped you when one of your schoolmates showed up with a new Beemer like this, hot off the a assembly line...
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:51 PM   #50
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Yes, farming is NEVER easy, and sometimes it's harder than others.

But sometimes it goes your way. My parents farmed all their lives, then rented out the farmland and retired. After my dad died my mom got tired of dealing with the farmland, the paperwork, the renters, etc, so we sold off most of the farmland about 2 yrs ago. Land values had exploded in the previous 10 years so she is pretty comfortable now. We could have done better if we'd waited until now to sell, but you never catch the top on something like that.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #51
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I don't know what some people think, but I see it among my friends, too. We know a teacher across the street, a long time divorced lady. She just retired and came over furious because she went to social security and says she only now found out that TX teachers don't pay into SS, and therefore don't get it. She was yelling "how do they expect me to live on $1700 a month?" (her pension) I couldn't believe she didn't know this. But she always plays a victim, so who knows.
I wonder if teachers in MO get SS along with the pension?
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #52
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You probably feel the same way about reading nuclear reactor plant manuals that I feel about reading bond offerings and IPO prospectii.

However we can both use electricity and invest in bonds, so I think the problems come when people can't (or won't) take responsibility.
I was thinking more along the lines of understanding that what you charge on a credit card has to be paid back. Different animal. Kind of like graspingthat the submarine eventually has to resurface.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:58 PM   #53
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I don't know what some people think, but I see it among my friends, too. We know a teacher across the street, a long time divorced lady. She just retired and came over furious because she went to social security and says she only now found out that TX teachers don't pay into SS, and therefore don't get it. She was yelling "how do they expect me to live on $1700 a month?" (her pension) I couldn't believe she didn't know this. But she always plays a victim, so who knows.

I know that others have commented on this post... I just want to throw my 2cents in...

She must not have worked that long to get $1700.. that is low for a life time teacher...

Also, if she had worked someplace else and got SS... it would be a lot less than what she is getting from TRS...

From what I have heard from my mom and sister.... it was 'common knowledge' that you would not get SS as a Texas teacher... heck, they passed a law that would prevent them from getting it unless it was under their earnings... there was a loophole that allowed a teacher to get SS if they retired at a job where they paid into SS.... there were a few school districts that allowed a teacher to do a single day work that paid into SS... this meant that you retired while paying SS and qualified for SS... when this loophole existed, Texas was the state that had the largest number of teacher doing this by far... this loophole has been closed...

I do think that teachers are told they do not qualify for SS.... but who knows if that happened or not...
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:00 PM   #54
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I was thinking more along the lines of understanding that what you charge on a credit card has to be paid back. Different animal. Kind of like graspingthat the submarine eventually has to resurface.

Yea... if not, then it is just another sunk boat...
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:41 PM   #55
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I'll bet it really chapped you when one of your schoolmates showed up with a new Beemer like this, hot off the a assembly line...
Thanks, good buddy.

Ha
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:09 PM   #56
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Love the Beamer!

We have another friend whose husband retired at 57 from a guvmint job and got a great pension. She is about 5 years younger, quit work at 62 and took her SS. We were having a recent discussion and either my wife or I mentioned how much we expect to get from SS by waiting to take it (We shouldn't need it for a few years anyway and my wife is 5 years younger than me, so it benefits her). Our friend thought I was out of my mind to think I could get that much from SS. She didn't realize it goes up every year until you're 70, if you delay it. And she was in the financial world too.

It is amazing.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:17 PM   #57
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I just try to be the better than average stepfather & hubby...our daughter is great!
You will be richly blessed. I was divorced when my children were very small and their dad wasn't around much, then he died. My husband raised them and they love him so much. Now that there are grandchildren, they love for him to be around the grandchildren and arrange for them to spend time together, which tells me how much they valued his parenting.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:32 PM   #58
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...Most people have never been taught this stuff, and many seem incapable of really learning even when you teach them. I don't know why this is the case, but it appears to be a fact of life. That being the case, I think there should always be a an option of a simple, straightforward financial product in every market that should be the default for consumers; people should be automatically enrolled in a retirement pan where they work (compulsory would be even better); and a required perasonal finance class should be taught in each year of HS. I suppose that is all as likely as me flying my dining room table to the moon...
Having some mentally defective relatives (some nature, some from accidents) I know this to be true. They are simply incapable of understanding even simple (not even compound) interest, and planning ahead and saving money is beyond them. One of them gets SS benefits from the earnings record of an ex-spouse, the other from SSI. I paid into Social Security for a few years, and will get nothing back from it personally because I'm vested in a government pension, but I have no complaints because I know that so many helpless people benefit from it. That is the cost of living in a civilized society. I don't think anyone should have to live under a bridge in this country, we have so much excess wealth. My point is that the system Brewer says we should have, we do have, unless it is unwisely demolished.
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:05 PM   #59
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I don't think anyone should have to live under a bridge in this country, we have so much excess wealth.
The lucky ones live under bridges, the rest live in door ways or behind dumpsters.

Ha
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Old 06-21-2011, 05:31 PM   #60
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I wonder if teachers in MO get SS along with the pension?
No, MO teachers do not.They pay in 14.5% of their salary and that is matched by district. It has been going up a half percent each year for several years to help keep system healthy down the road. Many teachers who teach half their career in a SS/pension state then transfer to one of the 14 states like MO that don't get a rude awakening come retirement. Instead of basically getting 2 half pensions, they lose the SS part of previous teaching pension because of the non contributing SS pension system MO has.
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