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Old 09-10-2008, 07:26 AM   #41
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Using the "all-in-one" or "true cost" concept (total bill including all taxes, surcharges, event charges and all other BS) divided by the energy used:

Last Electric bill (August): Total Cost $65.44 (when divided by total KWH used (617)) the cost PER KWH is $00.10606 (True Cost).

Last Natural Gas Bill (August): Total Cost $18.03 (when divided by the total Therm (6 adjusted to 7 (by some fancy, confusing, formula)) that comes to $2.5757 per Therm (or roughly $00.26 per Cubic Foot).

So Electric is $00.11 KWH and NG is $00.26 per CF.
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:28 AM   #42
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Sorry, couldn't get the Chart to Copy

Natural Gas bulk price is DOWN 50% since May/June 2008. When do we users get some bebefit out of this?
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:47 AM   #43
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I'm surprised to see such low rates in comparison to this part of the country since my utility (Southern Co - Alabama Power) claims we have some of the lowest rates. My 1500 sqft house is all electric and average monthly cost is just under $80 (last 12 months $957.65). Cost per kwh was .1174 for an average of 680 kwh per month.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:18 AM   #44
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Denver CO:

July 2008
Electric - $242.06/2,063 KwH = 11.7 per Kilowatt Hour
(Natural) Gas - $23.07/11 Therms = $2.10 per Therm used

July 2007
Electric - $141.48/1,694 KwH = 8.4 per Kilowatt Hour
(Natural) Gas - $17.44/12 Therms = $1.45 per Therm used

Yikes!
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:22 AM   #45
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Here I am paying:

Electric last month - .10/kWh
Gas last month - $2.81/Therm

I do budget billing with the power company (gas and electric), so they average my usage and charge me one price for a year. Each year they recompute and if I was underbilled (like last year) I have to make up the difference over the next year.

Last year I paid $88 a month (gas/electric), this year I will be paying $141 a month (to make up a shortfall that $88 a month created, since I added a hot-tub last year) . Still that isn't anything compared to what some of you are paying...

I think it helps that I am only heating/cooling 1350SF in a mellow climate.

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Old 09-10-2008, 05:20 PM   #46
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Yep, that's the only accurate way to do it. If all charges aren't included in your calculation you're just fooling yourself.
We'd pay $16/month even if we didn't use a single watt, so I subtract that out.

We're also getting rebates from HECO overdoing their last couple rate increases, so I add those back in.

Then I divide the resulting charge by the number of KWhrs and get something close to the average rate that HECO advertises on their website.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:35 PM   #47
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Everything we do on the site boils down to "it depends". The longer these things go the more defined/refined they get, although if you do not read the entire thread you will be confused sometimes as to what is being discussed.
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Old 09-10-2008, 05:44 PM   #48
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Here in SW Oregon electricity averages out to about $0.105 a KWH. The summer heat is very dry so we don't have AC, a window swamp cooler is enough for the few warm afternoons so my electric bill is pretty low (less than $100). During the winter months use about two cords of wood from my property for heat which would be about $175/ cord if buying.
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:51 PM   #49
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Natural gas: $10.50 per month if you use nothing plus about $1.24 per one-hundred cubic feet (CCF). For August we used 12 CCF and the bill was about $27. We have gas water, gas dryer. We won't run the gas heat until December. February gas bill is about $200.

Electric averages about $160 a month with as high as $220 in summer and as low as $50 a month in winter.

This is for a 3000 sq ft McMansion near Houston. Our bills in 2007 and 2008 have been lower than in 2006.
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Old 09-10-2008, 10:05 PM   #50
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Wife turned the heat on last weekend too. (I know there's a joke in there).
So, this is for last month for electricity.

Basic service charge = $5.50
Fuel clause Adj. = $18.86
First 1000KWH summer rate = $0.062/KWH = $62
After 1000 = $0.053 /KWH (only 6 KWH at this rate) = $0.32
Interim Rate Adj. = $10.14 - no idea what this is. They undercharged in the past and now they're trying to make it up... is how I recall the explanation.
City fees (2%) = $1.94

Grand total = $98.76 for 1006 KWH. = 9.81 cents/KWH

The summer rate of 6.2 goes to 5.3 or 5.4 in the winter, everything else stays the same. Even though we heat with gas.

Nat gas is $19.04/mo. whether we turn it on or not. Used to be split up into delivery and gas charges plus fees. Now it's $19 + gas + fees.
Last Oct., it was $18.48 plus $0.635312/therm.
Used 32 CCF. They adjust for heat content but it doesn't change anything. 32 ccf = 32 therms. This equates to $20.33 for the gas.
Plus 2% for city fees ($0.78 ), 2% for state tax ($0.79).

Grand total is 40.38, = $1.26/therm or ccf. Again, this was back in Oct. Too lazy to dig out any other month unless someone requests it.

Eastern ND - where the hot is hotter and the cold seems colder, the hardiness zone chart for plants is lying.

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Old 09-11-2008, 06:51 AM   #51
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Natural gas: $10.50 per month if you use nothing plus about $1.24 per one-hundred cubic feet (CCF). For August we used 12 CCF and the bill was about $27. We have gas water, gas dryer. We won't run the gas heat until December. February gas bill is about $200.

Electric averages about $160 a month with as high as $220 in summer and as low as $50 a month in winter.

This is for a 3000 sq ft McMansion near Houston. Our bills in 2007 and 2008 have been lower than in 2006.

Your about where I am at (utility cost and house size)

I have often thought that, with my houses high ceilings, if heating and cooling costs ever got ridiculous I could put up some walls and ceilings (portable and temporary) to heat and cool only the livingroom and a bedroom or two.

I mean selling a 3000 sq ft house if utilities doubled again would get harder and harder. (just like people trying to dump their trucks today)

What would others do if your utilities started to run 500/mo ?
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:58 AM   #52
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Your about where I am at (utility cost and house size)

I have often thought that, with my houses high ceilings, if heating and cooling costs ever got ridiculous I could put up some walls and ceilings (portable and temporary) to heat and cool only the livingroom and a bedroom or two.

I mean selling a 3000 sq ft house if utilities doubled again would get harder and harder. (just like people trying to dump their trucks today)

What would others do if your utilities started to run 500/mo ?
Ceiling fans on LOW and set for Winter (air coming down the walls) - would do a better job IMO.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:24 AM   #53
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Ceiling fans on LOW and set for Winter (air coming down the walls) - would do a better job IMO.

Hmm with a 3000 sq ft house that has ceilings varying from 10 up to 20 ft in height I think that if I was able to change my heated/cooled space from 3000sq ft to under <800 sq ft (and bring ceiling height of that 800 to <8ft) I would drastically cut my bill.

Just talking about doing it if utilities went crazy ...

Existing gasfireplace could easily heat living room and bedroom by using a fan or two for circulating/dispersion of heat (window a/c unit in summer) Therefore the House heat and a/c could be set at say 82 in summer and 60 in winter and hardly come on.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:27 AM   #54
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my wife and i saw a few homes with vaulted ceilings

i told her no way because the heating costs will be sky high
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:40 AM   #55
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my wife and i saw a few homes with vaulted ceilings

i told her no way because the heating costs will be sky high

It does make a difference. I Heat to 70 degrees at a height of 5ft. If I put a thermometer on a stick and check it at the 20ft height it is 86 degrees up there!
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:25 AM   #56
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Yeah, ceiling fans will help a ton, circulating some of than 86 degree air back down to the floor.
We specifically made a choice for no vaulted ceilings for that reason and an open floorplan air flows well from downstairs to upstairs so we only need to use the in-floor heat in the winter).
For an existing house, the most effective things may be better insulation and ceiling fans.
Most utilities will offer cheap 'energy audits' which will give you a better idea of where your biggest losses are happening.
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:29 AM   #57
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Yeah, ceiling fans will help a ton, circulating some of than 86 degree air back down to the floor.
We specifically made a choice for no vaulted ceilings for that reason and an open floorplan air flows well from downstairs to upstairs so we only need to use the in-floor heat in the winter).
For an existing house, the most effective things may be better insulation and ceiling fans.
Most utilities will offer cheap 'energy audits' which will give you a better idea of where your biggest losses are happening.
Ok, Agreed. And that might save you say 20-30% (maybe) on your utility bills but what if a year from now your bill is 400/mo average and it looks like that will continue that way.

What drastic steps could you take other than downsizing the McMansion that noone wants to buy?
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:31 AM   #58
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Look at #19. These costs are for a VAULTED three level home; with one ceiling fan (which we mostly only use on extreme days, in the summer for cooling). These costs are well below the AVERAGE costs as provided by the local Utility Companies. However, someplace like Florida (where we lived for 19 years) I definitely would never purchase a two level home or one with something called a BONUS room as the summer heat can be tough even with extensive insulation.
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Old 09-11-2008, 10:27 AM   #59
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Yep, that's the only accurate way to do it. If all charges aren't included in your calculation you're just fooling yourself.
Ah, good point.

That puts me at $.072/KWH.

Gas comes to $2.32/CCF. Most of that is due to fixed costs.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:34 PM   #60
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Funny how wildly different the gas and electric rates are around the country. Electricity makes a lot more sense than gas...you'd think gas rates would be pretty darn close.
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